Good up to date information on Gull fuel.

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mojo49, Feb 6, 8:47pm

ianalice1, Feb 6, 9:18pm
We have a 1999 Honda Odyssey, 2.3, Jap import and I asked Honda and they said NO!
So have not tried it.
They said "could" cause fuel system issues.
Leaks etc.
Anyone out there, tried Gull on a motor like this?
ian

intrade, Feb 6, 9:34pm
this is professinal advise i give you right now . its based on facts from the worlds best diagnostic technitions plus my research over years and years.
You do not want any ethanol in any vehicle unless it has a flex-fuel system engine. Flexfuel engines have tuffere corrosion resistent components . The problem of ethanol can even bring a flexfuel engine to its knees , when the flexfuel engine uses mathematic to calculate the amount of ethanol in fuel instead of sensors to mesure ethanol content.
Having said this you will find your car probably runs fine on ethanol fuel.
the problems start when you have contermination with water like some rain entering your fuel system as a example that is quite likely and loads of other possibly conterminations like from switching fuel loads between ultra low sulfur diesel and petrol in same pipes .
ethanol with ulsd diesel and a few drops of water causes rapid agressive corrosion.
There is a additive i forgot what it was called but its something like ethanol fighter along that name to go in petrol fuel.
if you suspect you had ethanol conterminated fuel in your car i would advixe to source a ethanol defender additive and put it in the tank.

intrade, Feb 6, 9:40pm
now what is the real problem with etanol and how did this flexfuel engine get to no starting condition.
Ethanol binds to water , the test to see how much ethanol in the fuel is containing is to add a sample to a mesuring gague and add a specific amount of water and shake it, then you let it settle and you can pour off the water with the ethanol from the petrol.

it will do that in your fuel tank also.
once you have water ethanol seperates and sinks with water to the bottom of the tank
Your car runs on petrol till it starts sucking the ethanol water mix and then its stalling because it cant run on ethanol and water
Engines can only run on water if you smoke to much weed
This is how the calculations get screwed over by the flexfuel engines with no ethanol sensors . this information comes from a professional no start case study i did read and did help me understand better what the problems are its all fine solong you dont have ethanol starting to seperate from petrol.

ianalice1, Feb 6, 9:43pm
So, Mr Intrade, what you are saying, is also, NO?
What sort/kinda car uses flexfuel?

intrade, Feb 6, 10:02pm
that will be harder to find out owner manuals will tell usually in the manual about fuels i am not sure but i think some of them ford falcons are flexfuel models and i would assume some of the GM holden products will be flexfuel even dacia have a flexfuel- also sometimes they call it multi-fuel engines
so places to figure is to look in the owners manual that comes with new cars
dont know how accurate this is but it might confirm what i just wrote i had no time to read it just now
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle

smac, Feb 6, 10:17pm
I thought (and that article states) that flexfuel is E85.

Anyway, yes FG Falcon is designed to handle E10 (as opposed to tolerates it by chance which is the case with a lot of cars) I assume because E10 is so widespread in Aussie. I've been using it because it's more readily available than BP98 where I live, and the cheaper cost more than offsets any increase in consumption (which is tiny, if any).

ianalice1, Feb 6, 10:20pm
It says a 1919 Ford Model T Coupe, is one, a Ford Escape Hybrid and a Fiat Siena Tetrafuel 1.4 think I'll just stay with my trustworthy Z 95, for now.

tmenz, Feb 6, 10:26pm
Ha ha - good line!

ema1, Feb 7, 12:24am
intrade wrote:

. Engines can only run on water if you smoke too much weed.

Ha ha - good line!

Quote tmenz

Ha ha intrade , if you smoka da weed you a go by yerself.

thejazzpianoma, Feb 7, 12:32am
In my opinion, you can't have a sensible discussion of this topic on here as a certain fuel company has been known to send letters from their lawyer via trademe, threatening legal action if you make posts that might show them or their product in a negative light.

ambo11, Feb 7, 12:42am
After Gull fuel destroying carb diaphragm and fuel lines in my new large Solo chainsaw, and gumming up two of my others after sitting less than a month, I won't go near Gull ever again. Just need to look up the major problems ethanol has caused in the states with small engines, outboards and even plane engines. If Gull fuel was free I wouldn't accept it. Couple of years back when I wasn't aware I was using it in our V6 Maxima, but after filling it at a Z station with 95 the difference was noticeable.Smoother engine and seemed to just run nicer. Never go near Gull again.

rsr72, Feb 7, 12:44am
Due to the lower calorific value of ethanol, cars travel a shorter distance on it, hence the larger fuel tanks on overseas cars built for ethanol fuels.

Germans boycotted E10 fuel in Germany.
http://www.treehugger.com/cars/why-are-germans-boycotting-e10-the-ethanol-fuel.html

brapbrap8, Feb 7, 12:56am
Same here, luckily I haven't used Gull myself as there are none in my area.
A few mates have though in various performance cars and the symptoms seem to range from just poor running and sluggish to really nasty detonation issues that put the car into limp mode (Honda Accord Euro R).

elect70, Feb 7, 2:59am
I remember in the 70 s fuel crisis old DSIR did trials with methanol powered cars , but as intrade says it caused problems due to water content & caused premature engine wear . t was dropped when CNG /LPG came along .

mojo49, Feb 7, 5:23am
Great input intrade. Always interesting to read some serious research on the subject. I was not intending to start a debate. Just read the article on Herald website and thought TFI. Dont use Gull myself. When I did I found about a 10% economy loss compared to the 2.5% they admit to in the article. Marketing spin, so you can only expect selective truth. Have a Caltex station that matches local Gull price, is on my way to work and the Caltex owner is a really nice guy, so easy choice for me and the station is one of the closest to the refinery.

jason18, Feb 7, 5:25am
Holden 3.6 isok too

jmma, Feb 7, 5:40am
I tried to take this issue up with Mobil and hit a brick wall, then took it to the paper and again brick wall.

A local lawnmower repair serviceman says he is getting a steady stream of customers whose lawnmowers are being damaged by the petrol they are using.

Mark xxxxxxx, who owns xxxxxxxxxx in Titahi Bay, says he has noticed an increasing number of burnt-out carburettor diaphragms and he is getting "a lot of grumpy people" complaining about it.

Mr xxxxxxxxxx said one thing the customers had in common was that they were using Mobil 91 octane fuel.
"I'm getting at least one person a week over this, it's a big problem.

"Many are from the [Cannons] Creek area, where Mobil is the only petrol station.

"I'm having to empty the fuel out and replace the diaphragm, but the problem is they are just going and refilling the mower from the same place.

"I'm the one getting the blame over this."

Mr xxxxxxxx is convinced it has something to do with the ethanol in Mobil 91.

Modern, bigger engines, such as in cars, can deal with the ethanol, but lawnmowers cannot, he says.

Mobil spokesman Alan Bailey confirmed to Kapi-Mana News that Mobil is the only company in the Wellington region to blend ethanol - up to three per cent - in its petrol and has done so since 2008.

He says the blend is better for the environment and adds to the volume of fuel available.

Mr Bailey says the presence of ethanol can create problems for some smaller fuel systems but it is not necessarily the cause of the diaphragm burnouts.

His advice is to always check with the manufacturer about what is the ideal type of fuel to use. In some lawnmowers it might be best to use 95 fuel or higher.

"We always want to encourage people to find out if you're using the right petrol. For some types of engines you do have to be careful.

"Ethanol is quite acceptable for cars and it is something the government is encouraging for a number of reasons. We believe it is very viable."

Kapi-Mana News contacted other mower repair businesses in Porirua and Tawa, all of whom said it was not a problem they they had come across.

However, all agreed it was important to get in touch with your lawnmower's manufacturer if you are unsure.

The "frequently asked questions" section on biofuels and alternative fuels on the Economic Development Ministry website says ethanol-blended fuel "can generally be used in both four-stroke and two-stroke engines".

sr2, Feb 7, 6:18am
Wow jazz mate, are we having a bad day?

pericles1, Feb 7, 6:26am
If you have a turbocharged car then the benefits of running E10 98 fuel are great. Ethanol allows the fuel to burn cooler and allows more advanced timing to be run and resists detonation better. My car goes ALOT better on Mobil Synergy 8000 (also 98 10% ethanol) than it does on BP Ultimate 98(which contains no ethanol)

ralphdog1, Feb 7, 6:42am
OK, accepting that as fact (and I genuinely do) what is stopping the naming of the "certain fuel company" ?

smac, Feb 7, 8:18am
The issue has been (if the stories of letters are true) that some people have problems sticking to provable facts, versus spouting theories and opinions dressed up as facts. For example, using the examples from this thread, it may be fact to say you had used nothing but Force 10 in your chainsaw for the last year, and then the 18 month old carb diaphram split. It would not be fact to say (as a result) that "Force 10 will rot your carb diaphragm". It could equally be (for arguments sake) a crap quality part. If people could stick to facts, or when they are stating opinions make it clear they are doing so, there wouldn't be a problem.

thejazzpianoma, Feb 8, 5:51am
No, not at all. Just making sure people know what has happened to myself and others.

thejazzpianoma, Feb 8, 5:55am
Nothing really, was just giving them the least opportunity possible as in my opinion they are likely to be looking for anything that can be used against me. Given I haven't ceased and desisted participating in threads relating to ethanol fuel and the companies that sell it.

thejazzpianoma, Jun 30, 6:11pm
BTW. I personally think it's very irresponsible to use a "rule of thumb" to decide whether a vehicle is suitable to run E10 when there are a considerable number of exceptions to this "rule of thumb" where the vehicles can suffer very expensive damage as a result. We are potentially talking thousands of dollars for a high pressure fuel pump replacement for example.

Likewise, in my opinion it's very irresponsible not to be pointing out the risks associated with using E10 in a marine environment. Aside from equipment damage that's a serious safety issue in my opinion.

But that's just my opinion of course. I don't see what's wrong with referring customers to their vehicles manufacturer for the go ahead before using it. Given the potential consequences and all. I guess it comes down to what your priorities are.

Lastly, it's worth bearing in mind (again in my opinion) that the sorts of problems you can get from running ethanol in an incompatible vehicle are not necessarily going to be blamed on the fuel. In other words, the mechanic often won't realise the cause, can't prove the cause or will neglect to mention it.