This VW debacle.

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rob_man, Oct 14, 12:13am
If I owned one of the affected vehicles I'd be reluctant to let them recall the car and change it into a slower version that uses more fuel.
It's always been a bit of a mystery to me that all the emission control nonsense seems to destroy the economy of an engine, how can a car using more fuel make less emissions?

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 12:17am
It's a matter of balancing the various types of emissions.

The issue that Volkswagen is having is with NOx emissions which are the most harmful, therefore the most heavily regulated (especially in the USA where the problem was first discovered)

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 12:18am
As for 'letting them recall the car' depending on what part of the world you are in you may not get a choice - after all the car does not meet the standards necessary to use on the road (despite being advertised as such)

tintop, Oct 14, 12:26am
Indeed - photochemical smog involving nitrogen oxides used to cause a 'sunset' in Los Angeles a couple of hours earlier than the rest of the west coast. Incredible brown outs in the late 70's

mm12345, Oct 14, 12:37am
Because NOx is produced when the combustion chamber temperature is high but fuel mixture is lean.
VW probably "cheaped out" in those earlier (2009-2014) cars to use NOx trap catalytic converters too small to work under "real life" conditions.
Perhaps if the whole engine/exhaust design had been adequate, they wouldn't have needed to cheat to pass the tests.
So far in this saga, no other maker has been pinged for cheating, even if all fail to get even close to the results achieved/mandated in test cycles when evaluated in "real life" tests.

If it's not possible to make small genuinely clean, reliable, inexpensive to buy and maintain diesels at all, then the solution is simple. Get rid of them.

intrade, Oct 14, 12:39am
its strange how it matters so much about some anal crap if you look at the global picture of enviroment . on pukets beaches they cant breath because of illegal burning deforestation of rainforrest to plant some soya beans from monsantos so the greenie morons in the epa can eat there tofu crap.
but i guess no money can be made from stopping true inviromental global warming and pollution.

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 12:42am
You only need to look at a big city like Paris to see the problems caused (at least in a large part) by vehicle emissions.

tamarillo, Oct 14, 12:43am
Performance and economy will only be ruined f the go for a simple software fix. Not sure we know yet what they intend.

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 12:46am
I don't think it's practical to make the cars comply in the USA without adding SCR which is going to be extremely expensive (if even possible)

intrade, Oct 14, 12:52am
i agree with poster i i sure as hell would not let them change things so my particulet filter is full in 3 month time and stuff like that. The ottomotor is stone age technology with a extreem low efficiency 27% for gasoline and 34% for diesel big ship diesel burn straight raw oil and are over 50% efficient , electric motors are somwhere near 90% efficient
So who is keeping the bones of these dinosaurs allive the oil multis with all the mafia gang and they are all in it governments the lot of em its all about making $$ greed and power . or why do you think they have a war in syria instead of stopping illegal rain forrest burning
the money sunk in wars used to pay off illegal deforestation people would stop that but hey then somone else got the oil.
oil is used as fuel for these dinosaur otto motors. look up in wikipedia how old the junk is
greed and power drives it all not enviromental protection.

mm12345, Oct 14, 12:53am
True. It looks like it may be different solutions in different markets.
If they cheap out here with software fix for 2009-1014 models (not the newer adblue models), then I'd expect performance may not suffer much, but they'll use more fuel, and probably clog/destroy DPF and EGR systems more quickly, possibly tend to overheat the primary cat.
If it was me, I'd want my money back or a new car. Second choice would be to get rid of the car, and sue VWNZ for loss of value through the DT (up to $15k)

kazbanz, Oct 14, 1:44am
Why would they do ANYTHING at all for existing fleet vehicles here in NZ?
NZ gubbiment has made their position clear. "lets not upset the new car industry"
So cars already on the road/registered get to stay there.

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 1:47am
They'd still be open to action from people who bought the cars - they were (allegedly) advertised as meeting standards that it turns out they don't

mm12345, Oct 14, 1:59am
Don't be an optimist. They'll probably argue to ban all used imports as they'll now all be "suspect" with regard to emission standards which applied when they were made.
I better shut up - it might give them ideas.

elect70, Oct 14, 2:25am
Unless NZ govt issue a directive then nothing needs to be done . Its USA making the big stink ,anything to get at the euro s

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 2:29am
Volkswagen NZ has already said that a fix is being developed and owners will be contacted once it is ready.

Also how is it the US 'making a stink'?

melonhead1, Oct 14, 2:47am
Screw emissions standards. Just give us a vehicle with something more than a half-a-cylinder engine please.

I want some POWER!

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 2:58am
You can buy a 220kw Golf

sr2, Oct 14, 3:05am
You're on to mate, the only mistake VW made was getting caught.
I'm sure many new diesel cars (from many manufactures) will be returned to their new owners after their 1st service with a little less power and a little more thirst!

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 3:07am
So far VW is the only manufacturer implicated in a direct cheat and there isn't any real reason to believe anyone else is doing the same thing.

gazzat22, Oct 14, 3:10am
Yes,clean ,green NZ has no emission testing,we rely on the "honesty" of car manufacturers.A few emission testing "devices" were trialled a few years ago and sent back as being not "cost effective"ie too expensive! One thing i have noticed in the UK which has emission testing,MOT and kerbside "sniffers" is diesel vehicles dont "smoke" unlike a trip on our motorways

mm12345, Oct 14, 3:52am
NOx and nano-particulates are invisible. Lack of visible smoke is not a good indicator that exhaust emissions are at safe levels.

mm12345, Oct 14, 3:58am
That's true (incl Audi VW, Skoda, Seat).

The problem with the "indirect cheat" the rest use is that the regulators in Europe were deeply influenced by the auto makers and their governments to allow cycle-beating. It'll probably never be sorted - despite being rotten to the core.

intrade, Oct 14, 4:04am
exactly vw just bundled all the legal loop hoes in one exicutable packet . and that is illegal you must follow the law and exploit each loop hole separetly its the law. and we all know how anal america is with law they would sue there own grandmother if the law would allow it.

vtecintegra, Oct 14, 4:05am
Nope - that post just shows you do not understand what has happened at all