Morning all. After doing a particulary bad de carb the other day it got me thinking. Instead of blocking it off causing all kinds of DTC'S is it possible to plumb fresh air in from behind air flow meter thus fooling ecu that egr system is working.
intrade,
Feb 24, 7:23pm
no the new type egr system use the wideband air fuel ratio sensor to see when the egr is on and it knows the airflow going thru the mass airflow meter. with these 2 things it calculates if the egr is on or not , and throws a code if it is outside of the windo it calculates it to be it first trys to regulate the egr valve more open or more closed and if it fails it is throwing a tdc. Hope you understand any of this .
Also i am interested how did you do the decarboning exactly
intrade,
Feb 24, 7:26pm
also egr dont adds fresh air it adds exhaust gas thus starving the air not adding more air, so even if it was possible your idea is going to do the opsosite thing of what egr does.
bigfatmat1,
Feb 24, 7:33pm
lol since the ecu controls the egr I think it knows when it's open and closed. Op no you cannot way to many reasons why you cannot do this. Also if it's a latish model cr you will need to do a egr relearn after cleaning.
intrade,
Feb 24, 7:38pm
some have no egr and its only like 2015 models + - people with a commonrail who think they have no egr are dreamers any diesel needs egr to meet emissions standards by default petrol cars to starv it of air and with exhaust valves that can reopen to suck back exhaust gas for the next combustion making the exhaust gas stay in the cilinder thus eliminating the need to have it plumbed back in to the intake. i cant recall where i got that from but its from some professional stuff i read and trainings i done read up on latest mitsi diesel if they are euro 6 it will have that stuff as there is no other way to meet these emission standards as adding more and more trickery electronics could well be missleading when you have a exhaust valve open 2 times and you dont know why it does that.
intrade,
Feb 24, 7:41pm
you have not done any professional courses have you? just because it controlls something dont mean its working right. how do you think it meets tuff emission standard , be checking if what it comands to do is actuarly happening , and i just explained how that is done. also i dont mean this in a arrogant way but i know a hell of a lot diesel i have 30+ years diesel experience electronic crap only 3 years but i learn fast. 24/7 learning so you can be sure i dont talk crap
mechnificent,
Feb 24, 7:47pm
Oh lol.
franc123,
Feb 24, 7:56pm
LMAO it has total control AND feedback of the EGR system, the ECU knows exactly what is happening and when, in much the same way as it has on the electronic throttling and a few other systems too. What you refer to above on petrol engines is called dual variable cam timing! Might be time to quit while you're behind on this one intrade.
intrade,
Feb 24, 7:57pm
you can get away with a delete on early commonrail depending on system. by programming the ecu so it is instructed to never open the egr , this works on euro 3 volkswagen quite well its how my vw is deleted cant be done if you have a dpf you would need to also delete the dpf togather with the egr out of the ecu map. on newer diesel this is not a good thing euro 5 for example use injectors that produce micro particle and deleting the emission system on this causes these particle to get in the air unfitered, and they are cancer cousing because the particle are so small as where the old diesel particles where large and would not make it in to the lungs like these new micro-particle do.
intrade,
Feb 24, 7:58pm
huh might be time you get up to speed on new technology.
mrfxit,
Feb 24, 8:08pm
Yea that particle size thing is a real catch22.
Read somewhere in relation to the pre yr 2000 vehicles that petrol vehicles produce a large amount of small but short lived small size particle carcinogenics. Diesels produce a small amount but long lived large particle carcinogenics
intrade,
Feb 24, 8:22pm
yes knew there was a problem i did read it in places of germany taxi deleting the dpf causing the german word is "feinstaub". They can mesure this in the towns and traced it to polluting taxis , the problem is diesel nuke the dpf real fast if used short therm like taxi so no wonder they all deleted the dpf. New systems, some use a diesel injector in the exhaust for better dpf efficiency and to try and fix the huge amount of problems diesel suffer from short drives. With urea= adblue or DEF for after treatment and intake runners to starve it of air at idle, so the nox level are low , as the biggest problem on diesel is nox and particular matter its not what you can see that is dangerous its what you cant see.
rctr,
Feb 24, 11:16pm
intrade wrote: no the new type egr system use the wideband air fuel ratio sensor to see when the egr is on and it knows the airflow going thru the mass airflow meter. with these 2 things it calculates if the egr is on or not , and throws a code if it is outside of the windo it calculates it to be it first trys to regulate the egr valve more open or more closed and if it fails it is throwing a tdc. Hope you understand any of this .
Also i am interested how did you do the decarboning exactly[/quote
On vehicle concerned ( mitsi with denso cr system ) there is no sensor after egr valve to measure ratio system uses calculation between MAP and air flow sensors to determine if EGR has gone in I've blocked off in the past and some have lasted a week some have lasted a month before code and limp mode. Hense the reasoning behind plumbing in a fresh air line after AFS and putting a blanking plate on end of valve. Manifold was removed and scrapped with screw driver before acid soaking.
bigfatmat1,
Feb 24, 11:27pm
blah blah blah it's not a pissing contest. I think sometimes maybe things just get confused in translation. I am not doubting your knowledge. Merely correcting. We are all here to help or learn. Not brag about our training.
intrade,
Feb 25, 1:05am
re* 13 it last weeks because it takes mesurments and if it is within range of the allowed tollerance it wont set a code, untill conditions are so that it is outside tollerance when it takes its mesurment and bingo a check engine light turns on. the problem i see what you want to do is the exhaust gas contain less oxigen not more when they are feed back in to the engine , i dont know if it would work in fooling the system like you say you have , possibly but what are the implication of having more air then fuel. that can be dangerous as thats how you burn holes in pistons when the mass airflow meter is actuarly faulty and you sortof crate this condition with more air. so study things carfully befor you do something bad.
intrade,
Feb 25, 1:13am
i tell you what the problem is of egr the gunk tar like slime that cakes the carbon on ,is caused by the pcv system. You sould better think of how to not have oil vapor go to the intake with a external purge tank and then feed the vapor to its origin. this way egr would last alot longer time trouble free with no delete. direct injected petrol suffer the same egr problem as diesel like GDi mitsis and fsi vw sidi holdons etc.
tweake,
Mar 4, 11:35pm
best way is to reprogram the ecu and set the conditions for egr so high it can't turn on. you could put a bypass valve past the MAF but it would need a smaller version of the egr valve in it so the ecu operates it. so airflow through the maf varies depending on ecu controlling egr valve. the other way is to reduce egr flow rather than block it. ie blocking plate with a small hole in it. something i havn't tried is the variable intake butterfly. old engines you can disable it but modern ones use ecu controlled variable butterfly. disabling that means no pressure drop to suck more egr in and allows full flow of air which keeps effective compression up.
mrfxit,
Mar 5, 1:06am
Yep that tar build up is a problem unique to direct injection piston engines of any 4 stroke design. Remember those small tubs you get from the supermarket delicatessen. I just over half filled that from tar scrapings from the TD27 inlet manifold.
EGR had been blocked with tar for many years.
bigfatmat1,
Mar 5, 3:55am
depending on vehicle but if egr is restricted a fault cod p0400 or the likes will be triggered depending again on vehicle this will cause other systems to shut down and possibly lead to further problems
john7891,
Mar 5, 5:02am
All above me - just take it to the dealer and hope they know what they are doing.
mrcat1,
Mar 5, 6:02am
What do you think the cause is, wrong grade of oil, not enough oil changes, not enough servicing, worn engine etc?
mrfxit,
Mar 5, 6:28am
1 of the other traders perfectly explained it a few weeks ago.
Carburetor systems flow air AND fuel mix down the inlet manifold Indirect injection (manifold injection) do this to a lesser degree Direct injection only flows air down the inlet manifold
ALL have EGR systems that direct crankcase vapors down the inlet manifold along with the incoming air charge.
Conclusion . >> The carburetor systems with a mix of air AND fuel also clean the inlet manifold because it is a 'wet mix' fuel/air charge
The other systems only carry incoming clean air AND EGR gas's (oil & carbon soaked gas's)
Worn engines etc simply make the situation progressively worse
bigfatmat1,
Mar 5, 8:35am
they can all contribute to a problem described above
mrfxit,
Mar 5, 8:39am
All diesel engines suffer the same gunk problems that Mitsi GDI systems suffer from when systems are not maintained. Both are Direct Injection systems
tweake,
Mar 5, 9:05am
restricting egr often works because its still letting enough egr through for the ecu not to trigger a fault code.
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