Hi guys, the Girling booster (remote mount) in my Volvo 1800S (Saints car) is stuffed and kits/replacements are ex overseas and expensive. These were universally used in a lot of Pom cars of the 60s (single circuit system) and were pretty crap as far as longevity was concerned. I'm in the process of buying a brand new PBR VH44 unit to replace the old unit. Just want to know your thoughts on the pros and cons. The car is Disc/drum set up. Thanks.
sr2,
Jun 10, 10:38am
Hi mate. Although not familiar with Volvo's in general I do have some experience with Girling mastervacs; both with repairing them or replacing with a suitable alternative, (predominantly from the PBR VH40 or VH44 range).
Stage one is identifying the model originally fitted to your car. Does it look like either of these two?
Edited to add is the booster connected to both the front and rear brakes or only the front?
poppy62,
Jun 10, 8:55pm
Hi sr2! my booster looks like this. Haven't checked on where it goes to after it leaves the booster. it's a single line from M/cyl to booster and one line out to the separation block. Thanks for the info.
Just had another gink at the first unit you posted and it's the same.
intrade,
Jun 10, 9:57pm
i would like to inform you you will devaluate the vehicle drastically if you start fitting non oem parts , seems not a huge problem for new zealand but lets say this car becomes worth 2 million in a oldtimer auction , you could see your non original part knock offf 250,000$ or more because its non original after every last modification devalues the vehicle for global antiques values. just so you know this.
reb53,
Jun 10, 10:37pm
Mine is the same as the first photo. I rebuilt it myself successfully about 20 years ago but this time thought I'd leave it to the pro's. Despite 2 attempts they were unable to get it right, and to their credit eventually refunded me. It seems that the rebuild/replacement parts are not quite the same spec as the original ones. Their test rig didn't pick up the problems, I did after re-installation/bleeding etc. Still have it in a box as may find someone one day who knows how to fix it as it is the original. Fitted a new Lockhead which is fine, and has the same feel as the original, ( when it used to work. ).
ignition328,
Jun 11, 1:01am
x1
Stacking it into a tree because the brakes weren't on form tends to devalue them as well.
poppy62,
Jun 11, 3:36am
No worries Intrade mate, I'll just box up the old unit and keep it as part of the OEM parts in the boot for someone else in the future to fix. In the mean time the car needs to be driven.
poppy62,
Jun 11, 3:40am
Hi again mate! did a check on the brake lines and yes the one from the booster goes to a four port "manifold" plus one more for the pressure switch. So it's one in and 3 out making the rear brakes also part of the booster system.
sr2,
Jun 11, 5:21am
My guess is that what you have there is a Girling Powerstop Mk2A Booster. It should have a 5/8 inch bore with either a 5 1/2 or 7 inch vacuum chamber. I haven't got a clue which model was fitted to the Volvo so you'll need to get the tape measure out and let me know.
From memory the Mk2B had the same slave/control body but was fitted with a "modern" rubber vacuum diaphragm instead of the leather boot and piston that the Mk2 had. They were often fitted as OE to British and European cars and were considered to be a reliable unit with slave cylinder corrosion and pushrod seal leakage being the most common reason for failure. It looks like kits are available on EBay UK for 45 to 55 pounds, not a bad price if the bore comes up well with a light hone. They??
sr2,
Jun 11, 5:26am
I'm interested in type of problems you were experiencing after it was rebuilt?
poppy62,
Jun 11, 6:24am
Hi mate! It's a 51/2"job, I have stripped it down completely and i shot off to Just brakes in Onehunga, guy there reckoned the bore was a bit scored and that they wouldn't be able to help with the vacumm chamber seals and the little rocker seals. I have seen the kits on eBay, but i'm reluctant to go ahead in case I can't clean up the corrosion and bore wear. I can get a PBR VH 44 brand new from OZ $190.00 landed in my letterbox. Really need to know if the VH44 is Ok to use. Bloke selling them recons Ok for Disc/drum arrangement. Whatcha reckon?
reb53,
Jun 11, 6:48am
It was "no brakes. no brakes". sh*t, panic, foot down hard and then all brakes. i.e. no modulation possible. Re-done, and then would get the pedal pumping back up and still weird. Rebuilders had run out of ideas, I suspect the springs/valves were different to the original. So the booster, ( which I now remember was a Powerstop 2A), is sitting in a box in the attic. I wanted to avoid a training course on how they work which is why I sent it to the pro's so I could stick it back in and be away. I rebuilt it myself first time around but suspected that relining would be needed this time and it couldn't stand a polish like the first time.
sr2,
Jun 11, 7:00am
Sounds like the PBR VH44 solution is the way to go, particularly at such a sharp price. The Mk2A booster has a 5/8" bore where as the VH44 is larger at 3/4", with similar sized vacuum chambers the VH44 will have less boost than the MK2A. The ideal replacement booster would be the VH44E; identical to the VH44 but with a smaller 5/8" bore it has higher boost ratio and a slightly lower crack pressure.
If you can't find a VH44E you should get away with a VH44, I can't see any safety issues there. Strange as it sounds in my experience (I've fixed/swapped out quite a few in my time) a little less pedal assistance is always preferable to too much.
Make sure you let us all know how it works out.
tamarillo,
Jun 11, 7:12am
Great approach, it's for driving! Beautiful car and will provide pleasure to anyone lucky enough to see it pass. I had an aftermarket booster put in an old Healey 3000 years ago, couldn't stop the damn thing! Somebody will probably have taken it out now as the things grow in value, but bet they don't drive it hard.
sr2,
Jun 11, 7:40am
You've got me interested, did the rebuilder re-sleeve it and if he did was it a brass or stainless sleeve?
poppy62,
Jun 11, 7:51am
Thanks SR2 your input is appreciated, also thanks to the others comments. Will keep you posted .
reb53,
Jun 11, 8:05am
I understand it was re-sleeved though I have no idea whether it was stainless, or brass, though I can't see how that would make a difference. The consensus of the Lotus forum, ( it's an Elan), was that re-build parts nowadays aren't up to the same specs as the original. When I rebuilt it 25 years ago I polished the scores out of the cylinder and even went to a local saddler for some leather to make a seal for the vacuum chamber as there wasn't one in the kit. It was fine until fluid started disappearing and on finding some in the vacuum chamber I thought it time for a re-build. So it's in brilliant nick, just doesn't work.
sr2,
Jun 11, 9:54am
Stainless sleeves are glued in (excess glue in the wrong place can be an issue) while brass sleeves are an interference fit which occasionally can cause internal fracturing. I??
poppy62,
Jun 11, 10:35am
A question for you Sr2. I was thinking about what the problems that would occur if I was to fit a more modern M/cyl booster unit (like a Jap type car). I was looking at the mounting of the Volvo's M/cyl and thinking I could make an adaptor to take a later style unit and it would then come down to getting the push rod the right length. Is there a problem going down this path, albeit I'd have to find a single circuit M/cyl unit (70s Jappas) or could I block off the secondary circuit. Do you know if this has been done?
sr2,
Jun 11, 11:07am
With a bit of fabrication anything is possible. At a guess I??
mrfxit,
Jun 12, 12:14am
Just a thought, what about 1 of the remote units off some of the light jap trucks, (common council type city trucks/ 1T or 2T)
reb53,
Jun 12, 8:22am
sr2, if you were to choose someone to re-look at my servo, who would you choose ? It'd be nice to have the original, and correct, servo back on my car but I can't be arsed re-installing it and bleeding the brakes etc only to find it's still not right. I, also, was surprised to find a big, re-conditioning business didn't have a test rig capable of seeing the problems I did as soon as I went for a test drive around the block. To give them their due they did refund me without question, and did re-sleeve a brake master without problem, though I suspect that is a lot easier than a servo.
snoopy221,
Jun 12, 8:43am
sr2, if you were to choose someone to re-look at my servo, who would you choose ?
With all Due Respect Craig-if he was still with us. However Oliver would be a good call and Simon knows Oliver damn well. Trevor ex Transport Hydraulics Nth Shr? still around Simon?
snoopy221,
Jun 12, 8:48am
Mind you old John Arkley could well advise herin too-he is current in the field 0800racebrakes. enter race brakes in to google. Known john since the nineties and be pretty damn sure sr2(Simon) knows im 2,,
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