Whats the story with these cars with the excessive neg camber and stretched tires to keep the tread under the guards. Is the top of the king pin, for want of a better word, or whatever it is that is altered. Is that mech pulled in at the top to camber the wheel, or is the bottom pushed out effectively widening the wheel base, or is it dependant on model. I'm wondering about a mid '80s rearwheel drive toyota. Ta
tweake,
Sep 14, 8:20pm
80's rear drive toyota will have a solid axle so you can't do it on it.
typically its on independent suspension where they have lowered it and not bother to adjust the suspension or changed the arms to get the effect. of course its dangerous to drive, not legal and ruins tires fairly quickly.
gph1961,
Sep 14, 9:13pm
you sound so well informed.Correct me on mid 80s IRS Cressida.
panicky,
Sep 14, 9:14pm
What mid 80's rear drive Toyota? Mines an 1986, has IRS. Is lowered. not to excess, but does have about a deg too much negative camber that cant be adjusted out.
tweake,
Sep 14, 10:01pm
sorry i'm half asleep, thought they didn't start doing a lot of them untill a bit later.
About ten years ago all the cool kids convinced one another that what you described was a look.
Since then they've mostly had a "the emperor has had no clothes" moment and you don't see too many slaves to this particular fad on the road any more.
sr2,
Sep 15, 12:55am
LOL, as a fellow, grumpy old man I couldn’t agree with you more; (youthful exuberance is no match for old age and treachery!).
In my (and possibly your?) day the coolest look was fitting homemade extended rear spring hangers and huge Parnelli Jones's to the back of your worn out Holden, Falcon, Chev, Vauxhall, etc. and heating the front springs to get that "nose bleed" look.
As we all know now the end result was a car with little or no front castor resulting in handling characteristics that ranged from little to no straight line stability, (on a good day) to massive under-steer that violently transitions into uncontrollable under-steer (on a bad day); oh the wonderful follies of youth!
It is easy to take ‘pot shots’ at the young, easy to forget that they are growing up in a world far more complicated than ours, it’s easier to pass judgement and do nothing while all they are doing is desperately trying to fit in with their mates and find a corner to piss in (just as we did).
If you get the chance try interacting with these kids, (most of us are related to or live next door to a few). Just show some interest in their cars and do a little old fashioned male bonding/mentoring. Let them in on your motorsport/automotive history, offer to help them with their cars, invite them to the man-cave for a beer, etc. If you take your time, if you don’t judge them you may find they’ll listening to what I call your ‘life-skill advice’ (most of us grumpy old men have it in abundance!).
Don’t expect to make huge changes. If you can help them get their car legal, get the odd kid to get his full license, get the odd kid to help put the tools away after you’ve helped him fix his car you may find them opening up a bit and asking for the real advice about the important shit in life.
All I can say is its always frustrating but on the occasion can be unbelievably rewarding. Sometimes it’s well worth putting you money where your mouth is and giving it a try.
(Sorry for the long post, a big day followed by a few well deserved Bourbons. Rant over).
stevo2,
Sep 15, 6:58am
Great post. Have you tried this sr2? I work with our apprentices to give a few life skills/hints to change their goals in life and hopefully send them down the right track. Gotta start off gently with "pull yer pants up and buy a belt, no-one wants to look at your boxers all day" and after a few years of guidance , they generally become very good young men
the-lada-dude,
Sep 15, 7:39am
" rear drive will have a solid axle so you can't do it on it. "
Yeah you can, but there's a little bit of work and a trick or two to it
boss_hogg,
Sep 15, 9:34am
Great post, now what's your address so we can deliver our boys to you?
sr2,
Sep 15, 9:43am
LOL; bugger off mate, my boys 21 and we still cant get rid of him, he's even moved his partner in as well! (Great kids though, wouldn't have it any other way).
kazbanz,
Sep 15, 10:34am
generally if you start at about 16 by the time you get em to 50 they are pretty good.
socram,
Sep 15, 4:33pm
LOL. We chucked #1 son out when he was 19 (his socialising was disturbing our beauty sleep) but he always was a good saver, so into a house of his own! He hated having a mortgage but even though an apprentice auto/marine electrician, worked his nuts off and was mortgage free by the time he was 23.
Back to OP. Best and cheapest modification I ever made was a ten quid pair of extended lower arms for my Mini. Turned it into a class winner in sprints, almost overnight. Only about 1 degree of negative, but that was enough.
richardmayes,
Sep 15, 5:07pm
Great comment, but I'm 37.
When the 'Hella flush' thing was at it's height most of the people doing it were my age. (I'm not quite sure where all of the money for all the label bashing JDM mag wheels etc etc came from, those guys must have poured absolutely everything they earned into their cars.)
I was an avid reader of NZhondas.com at that time and the way many of the fans of this 'stance' fad acted, and the way it divided and ruined that forum still stays with me as an example of just how obnoxious some "car" people can be!
richardmayes,
Sep 15, 5:10pm
In saying all of that, I'm a big fan of 'Petrolicious' an all of the Goodwood, vintage racing videos they post on facebook.
And from watching those it looks like "excessive camber" of the front wheels is required if you want to make a classic Mustang, Jaguar or Aston Martin go around corners well enough to be competitive with the likes of Minis, Fiats, Escorts etc in circuit racing.
hkjoe,
Sep 15, 5:55pm
If you type 'negative camber in Japan' into Google images: How do they drive these cars any distance at all? Maybe they are trailered to shows, or have engineered some sort of mechanism that extends the bottom of the wheel once the car is stopped.
socram,
Sep 15, 6:12pm
From what I have seen of Goodwood, I wouldn't call most of the negative camber excessive.
If you want to see real negative camber, check this out on Google:
milliken camber car
electromic,
Sep 15, 6:22pm
I ran 2 degrees negative camber on an r32 skyline in the 90's. Fully adjustable suspension, set up properly unlike some of the pieces of s**t I see around Hamilton. Handled perfectly, tyre wear was ok.
emmerson1,
Sep 16, 12:17am
How? The whole thing about solid axle is that it is solid - the wheels are always parallel? I know there are solid half or swing axles - is that it?
bill-robinson,
Sep 16, 7:15am
you bend the ends of ther axle housing up and replace the wheel bearings often
berg,
Sep 16, 7:45am
Nascar been doing it for years
strobo,
Sep 16, 8:22am
Swing axle since 1903 They do not have universal joints at the wheels: the wheels are always perpendicular to the driveshafts. Swing axle suspensions traditionally used leaf springs and shock absorbers. It was also used in early aircraft (1910 or before), such as the Sopwith and Fokker, usually with rubber bungee and no damping. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swing_axle
martin11,
Sep 16, 8:39am
Piper used Bungees in Cubs,Pacers and others well later than 1910 !
bill-robinson,
Sep 16, 8:55am
as they used to do in aussie taxis, put a cv joint out at the end of the axle with proper mounts and run as much as you want. then they found out about IRS and transaxles
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