Volkswagons.expensive to maintain?

I am looking at buying a runabout car and i understand that toyotas and hondas are good buys and cheap to maintain and run.but alot of them (used cars) seem to have high kms and still go for quite a bit. I have been browsing trademe for all sorts of models and like the look of VW's polo and gold models.preferably the 1998 - 2000 models (these are within my price range). Could someone tell me whether these cars are worth buying and whether parts are difficult to source, are expensive and if these cars have common promblems.eg. oil leaks etc

from my experience with Polos - yes they can be expensive to maintain in terms of a parts point of view. We had a fleet of 7 2000-2001 Polos and each and every one of them gave problems. The most common fault was the throttlebody needing replacement which caused stalling and rough running. I probably wouldn't pick a Polo over say an Echo/Vitz/Yaris etc, but the Golf is another story - I would almost go as far as saying any extra expenses with the Golf would be worth it because they are generally a nice car that gives you a rewarding drive over the equivalent era Corollas/Pulsars/Civics/Lancer-
s etc.

Small Toyota's are reliable, but a "good buy" no definitely not. They offer very little as a vehicle other than their supposed reliability and you are usually paying quite the premium for that.
I agree with the Phillip, while VW's are generally very good cars the Polo is not that great. My pick of the small cheap cars is the Fiat Punto from the year 2000 and newer. With that you get excellent fuel economy, great safety and features and reliability is very good. You can get a really spotless example fro about 6K and a tidy one from about $4500.
The Punto is also miles ahead of the pack if you want an automatic. It uses a CVT that is just miles ahead of what any other manufacturer was using in a small car at that time. Don't be put off by people saying bad things about CVT's that only goes for other manufacturers poor attempts at the technology. Fiat effectively invented the CVT for use in cars 30 years ago and their units are excellent. Just make sure the transmission has been serviced on time and you can't go wrong.

If you can'tguarantee its been serviced properly then just buy one with 50K or less on the clock.

By the way, top marks for thinking outside the square, you can get a LOT of lovely car for very little in your price range and age group. All it takes is a little research and sorting the "real information" from the huge amounts of hearsay and misleading junk that floats around the motor trade.

The good news is there are some good "straight shooters" like Philip around who can give you a balanced opinion.

BTW, if you want a manual or didn't like the Punto for any reason the Golf as he suggested would get my vote.

I own a "small Toyota" and I'd much rather have an older model Golf.

Polo's I've only ever heard bad things about.

Hi all. Thank you for taking the time to give me some very valuable information and guidance to steer me in the right direction! Much appreciated.have a good day all!

All the above posts are very helpful, but I would hasten to add that parts and servicing for VM's are about 30% more than their Japanese equivilants.

I've also heard that Cam belt replacements are horrendously expensive, as are some of the oils that they use.

thanks 321mat.something to definitely take into consideration especially on my budget!

Incorrect, only true if you go to some prestige dealer for the service that also services Ferrari's.
The standard Golf as recommended here has a cambelt change that is about as simple and cheap as its possible to get for any car.
The GTI Golf is a bit dearer for a timing belt but its not really any worse than any similarly sophisticated engine. Plus you get an excellent payoff in terms of power/economy. Basically the same economy as a standard Golf but much more go for passing.
VW Parts are about as well priced as they come, especially if you want genuine parts.

You talk such utter crap at times! nothin wrong with RELIABLE toyotas .Ive had a hiace for 15 yrs NO probs coming up to the magic mill kms and a 2c corolla clocking up the kms

So they are reliable we have established that. You have offered nothing to demonstrate they offer anything more than just being reliable transport.

Thats the point, they are a one note wonder offering reliability but fail to deliver anything else.

I have owned Toyota's too you know.

Hey jazz be fair. A lot of people just want a reliable round town car and are not interested in pretending that they are Schumacher. A Toyota Corolla is comfortable, reliable, reasonably peppy and economical which is all that many people want. Otherwise for my money buy a RX8.

Reliability and value for money are not mutually exclusive.
The original poster here is looking for value for money (read the original post). Small Toyota's in her price range do not deliver value for money (and the original poster has rightly noticed that). Alternatives like the Fiat Punto are not only also very reliable but offer MUCH more vehicle for the same amount of money.

Just try and find a $5500 Toyota with:

* Less than 100'000km
* 4 1/2 Star NCAP safety
* ABS, Pre-Tensioners, 4 or more airbags
* Economy of 5.5l/100km on a trip and only a litre or so more around town, with an automatic transmission that does 0-100 in 11 seconds or less.
* Adjustable power steering, factory subwoofer and other nice bits.
(You can get all of that in a Fiat Punto for $5500 or less with some looking around)

The value just isn't there. They are reliable no one is denying that but that is all they are. You pay a premium price, give up important safety and comfort features, pay more in fuel and/or have less performance for a tiny wee bit ofextra reliability. Which is only gained because the car has been stripped of important features.

People just fall for the marketing and all the stories told by the nations car dealers who rely on peddling under featured imports to put bread on the table.

You only have to look at how many people buy Prius's thinking they are going to save money to understand that people are easily swayed by marketing and hearsay.

I don't mean to sound snippy but its important people realise what they are and are not getting for their money. I have not tried to say Toyota's are unreliable, its only fair to credit them with what they deserve. Its just a shame there is nothing else to credit them with for their pricetag.

Anyone can pick up a phone and ring Qualitat (VW parts) and Italian Auto's (Fiat Parts) and grab some prices on service items like timing belt kits, brake pads etc. If they do that and then compare prices with Japanese makes they will quickly get the picture for themselves.

And the reason that a Fiat Punto is so cheap!

Only cheap in NZ, and its only cheap here because of our screwed up auto industry that revolves around pushing Asian imports hand over fist.

I have owned enough of them to realize there is no "catch".

I have had Mitsi's, Toyota's etc of similar vintage at the same time and they just don't measure up.

Its great to live in an isolated little country where with a little bit of research and thinking outside the square you can have a much better car for less money than everyone else is paying.

But Jazz the Punto is like a woman ya had to look at after a night on the juice . Will NEVER look pretty thats where the toyotas have it.You are lookin through rose tinted glasses. Many on here who have you pushing the same ole barrow comment on the shite looks)

The looks of a Toyota as an upside or reason to buy one! First time for everything, I suppose. I'm with Jazz on this, Toyotas are, by and large, seriously over priced in this country for what you get. You're just buying a reputation for reliability, and paying a premium for it, because New Zealanders, by and large, can't be bothered with servicing a car.

We have owned 5 Golf Gti models until recently.Servicing and maintenance no more costly than any other car we have experienced and we have had Vauxhalls, Fords, Toyotas, Hondas, two Citroens and a Peugeot, one Mercedes and a BMWand even a Mitsubishi.We also had the use of Chevs and Chryslers in the USA where my wife was a vehicle assessor for both companies at the time (Not at the same time).Mind you I would NEVER buy another Peugeot as it was the least reliable car we have ever owned.Almost all the above were purchased new and not all in NZ.

My brother in law got an early 2000's (with under 80ks on it)golf which cost over 5k in repairs, and spent a month in various shops for every week they had it for 2 years. It would go perfect with gin and tonic.

Young lady at work bought a new Golf - late MK4 - a few years ago. It was a real lemon. Many electrical faults, including random stopping / cutting out that the dealer could not fix, oil leaks, rattles, gearbox failure. She even got VW NZ to extend the factory warranty because in its 3 year warranty period the faults were still not fixed and she had been without her car for a significant period. Eventually it was sold with quite low mileage for a fraction of what she paid for it new. This was a NZ new brand new Golf.
Someone else I know has had a great run from their Golf. With VW / Audi it really is the luck of the draw. How lucky do you feel!

Thought all this push for safety was done by the marketers and the Govt who both gain fromit. The fact is vehicles aren't designed to be aimed at each other and no vehicle can be packed with enough safety features to guarantee the occupants safety,purely a marketing tool. Can have all the crap in the world but a rock can fall on the car, or you can get hit getting out. My brother buy's this sort of stuff, the repair bills are horrendous! purely snob value!

Hi all i am the original poster.sheesh there were more post than expected! All advise is much appreciated an taken into consideration. To thejazzpianoma, your advise is very valuable and you answered exactly what i wanted to know and then some! :) i dont suppose you have any opinion on holden astras 1998-2000 and Opel Astras! Sorry to bother you again! but i find it easy to understand you way of thinking.

No-one's mentioned Nissan! I agree Toyo have priced themselves off market. Nissans of similar size to Corolla are much cheaper, offer similar features plus chain cam belt. I never go to the dealers for service unless I have to there are plenty of good mechanics out there.

Just got rid of a astra, plagued with electronic problems, drove ok and quite economical but not up to scratch compared to what else is around in their price bracket.

AGREED!

Nissan have a very simple engine set-up, and servicing is relatively easy.
Oil, filter, and air and fuel filters, and spark plugs every so often, and that's it.

Thank you Nissan, for building a RELIABLE car (Primera, Pulsar, etc) that is cheap to maintain.
I only wish the door arm rest was up a bit higher, because my knee gets sore resting against it.

No problem sandra, you are making and important and expensive buying decision and I am more than happy to help as much as you need.

I am not a big fan of the Astra's, some have great luck with them some don't. There are a number of issues they can be prone to having. Without getting into the bit pro/con Astra debate in short I think you can do a lot better.

My first suggestion is still to try one of those Punto's. I am assuming a budget of around 5K here and for that sort of money nothing is going to give you as much bang for your buck as a 2000 or newer Punto with the 1.2 twin cam motor. Don't be put off by it being a 1.2, performance is well on a par with a 1.6 or 1.8 litre Corolla. You just can't beat the Punto on safety/features/power/economy for that price and reliability is excellent with cheap parts easily available and service intervals long. They are also galvanized so no rust issues. The only down side is they feel a bit more tinny than the likes of the Golf etc but interestingly despite appearances they actually do better in a crash.

If that dosn't suit then the Golfis a good option, especially if you can get a GTI, don't worry that its a sports model its not particually harsh riding or low to the ground. What you are getting thats so important in the GTI is a MUCH better engine than the standard Golf, much more go for the same amount of fuel.

Another diamond in the rough worth considering is a Volvo S40, but preferably not with the 1.8 engine. Parts are a bit dearer but reliability is really good. This is a car you want to get checked over really well before buying but they are a lot of car and can be had for a song. Good on gas (But no Punto), reliability is fantastic, features and safety really good as well.

Fiat Bravo/Brava/Marea's are also good cheap cars. Nice and straight foward to deal with, galvanised so no rust. Not as equipped as the later Punto's but a bit bigger and they feel a bit more solid. The 1.6 and 1.8 engines are the ones to go for, avoid the 2.0, its a great engine but its a super high performance unit with fairly expensive cambelt changes etc.

Audi A3's are another one that can be worth a look. Audi is a VW group car so don'tbe put off by the premium badge. They are just a Golf GTI with a different shell. You can get the Audi with and without the Turbo on the same great 1.8 engine used in the GTI. Some have the 5 speed auto and some have a 4 speed unit. Get one with the 5 if you can, you can tell its a 5 because it will have a "cutaway" gate under the transmission shifter where you push it over to engage "tiptronic" mode. These have the occasional electrical issue just like you can get with the Golf, but check it out before buying and look after it and you should be fine.

All cars in this price range are a little bit of a gamble. I have the most faith in the Punto and Bravo/Brava/Marea but all are pretty good bets really. Remember reliability is a function of what make model + km's on the clock + how its been serviced + how its been driven.

Taking your time, doing your research and checking each car carefully is the way to get something great.

Keep throwing other ideas at me if you want, there may be other good cars I have not thought of that appeal to you.

When you have found something you really like perhaps come back for a model specific list of stuff to check. Getting a final pre-check done by a good mechanic (not the AA or VTNZ) is always wise but you can narrow down your list be checking a lot of stuff yourself, you don't