Alfa 156 2.0

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chris_051, Jul 29, 6:11am
Looking at one of these just wanting feedback from those with first hand experience. The one I'm looking at needs the cambelts done, is this a diy day job and if so where is the best place to buy parts from, or best left to a garage (im heavy diesel, HATE working on cars), cheers,
rovercitroen, Jul 29, 6:40am
I had one of these a few years ago. Nice to drive, cheap to buy. Parts are eye-wateringly expensive even from the independent specialists. To do cambelt, tensioners and water pump was at least $1.5k when I priced them. Mine had a receipt for $2.4k for cambelt job from Continental Cars a few years ago and I'm sure it is probably more now. Alfa say it needs doing every 60,000 kms! Also, stay away from the Selespeed gearbox - they give trouble and the manual is a better drive. Electrically the 156 is a far better car than old Alfas and the 156 doesn't rust like the old ones did either.
msigg, Jul 29, 6:47am
Yes must do the belts on time or else Kaput.
llortmt, Jul 29, 9:02am
I've owned several, worked for a Fiat Alfa specialist in Europe and wouldn't own one in NZ,ever period.
However, the euro loving idiot with zero credentials will be along in a minute to tell you I'm just a know nothing knuckle dragging troll so make your own mind up.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 9:40am
Euro loving idiot with zero credentials here.
I only own them, service them, pay the running costs and order the parts.

I have a 2.0 JTS 156 as my daily runner and a 75 Spider in the shed as well.

Yip it can definitely be a DIY day job, I can supply you with a video and instructions. I can also give you a heads up on where to get parts at a good price etc. They are a different process to doing a typical Japanese car and you will need some tools (but these are affordable or can be borrowed). Not overly difficult or annoying to do though.

The parts are actually really reasonable if you know where to go and there no trouble at all to get bits in NZ (multiple specialists and you can order from mainstream suppliers too). You can also order online as I sometimes do and save some more.

Yes timing belts are every 3 years or 60'000km, however the vehicles are cheap to buy, fuel efficient, depreciate almost nothing and are fundamentally reliable. So overall they are actually quite reasonable to own price wise when you actually sit down and do the math.

It does cost a bit in parts to do the timing belts properly (and you definitely want to do it properly) but the cost is not so much the price of the individual parts but the volume of parts you need. With a twinspark I always do timing belt, tensioners, waterpump, variator, variator seals, balance belt, balance belt tensioners, thermostat and plugs when I get it. Thats going to set you back (and I am taking a rough guess here) about $800 in parts and thats shopping around. You will blow another couple of hundy on tools as well first time around.

However. you only need to go to that length every other service so your next timing belt service will only be $200 being just a belt and tensioners.

Fill me in on what you are looking at in terms of year (i.e JTS or earlier) and I might be able to give you some more clues, and some ideas on making sure you get a good one. BTW, the only thing you really want to avoid is the selespeeds, they are not as bad as they are made out to be but are still not worth the extra complication in my opinion.

Edit, its worth your while hitting me up with more details before you buy. There are a few idiosyncrasies to look for in the different years and the timing belt situation is a little bit different too.

Happy Shopping.
outbidyou2, Jul 29, 9:48am
Thank God I read this, I almost bought one and still had half an idea I might still get one
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 9:55am
Sounds good to me, the more people who can't do their own math who get put off these, the more bargains there are for me.
outbidyou2, Jul 29, 9:57am
Sorry Jazz, I wasnt repling to your post per se and didnt mean to offend. For me I have bad luck with this sort of thing and I am sure to buy a lemon.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 10:00am
That's O.K I wasn't offended at all, just giving you a good humored wind up! (although on reading it, I suspect sounded more harsh in text form than intended)

They are definitely a car where you need to do your research well first, so you know what to look for and then you need to take your time and get just the right one.

However, go slow and put the effort in and the rewards in driving pleasure and affordable motoring are great. If you don't have the time to put in the effort then you are doing the right thing giving these the swerve.
usdefault, Jul 29, 10:03am
If you have the feeling you lack confidence when making car buying decisions dont bloody buy a Alfa.

What's your budget!

I'm sure people can give you some suggestions on a more user friendly vehicle.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 10:05am
Alfa. there is no alternative.
rovercitroen, Jul 29, 7:08pm
Jazz. Is the cam belt change interval longer on the JTS engines than the Twin Spark (like I had)!
eagles9999, Jul 29, 8:10pm
No. Applies to all 2 litre engines. Factory recomendation is every 60,000km or 3 years. there used to be a longer interval but the factory issued revised intervals sometime ago.However the 3 year interval is not realistic if its being used as a second occasional vehicle anddoing low km. Ignore post #3, cambelts can last a lot longer - I know of 3 cars where the belts were not changed until 90 km.One I recently enquired about had done 110km. - owner didnt know about the factory recommendations. The biggest problem with Alfa 156's is finding a knowledgeable service shop.Despite modern diagnostic equipmentmany faults are hit and miss repairs.If you were out of the main centres i wouldnt buy one. I had one (my 2nd Alfa) for 5 years and would buy another but the missus would probably leave me.
eagles9999, Jul 29, 8:14pm
As for Jazz's quote for parts to thoroughly do the cambelt replacement (and other stuff) add at least another$200 for the parts "shopping around". Labour cost is likely to add another $700 to $900.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 8:51pm
JTS engines have an improved variator which lasts a bit better so you don't have to change until higher km's (Variator, not timing belt, the interval for the timing belt is still the same). However many mechanics don't seem to realise this and you wind up with JTS cars downrated to the old style variator because thats the one they have ordered and changed unnecessarily. The improved variators are twice the price and interchangeable.

BTW, there is a variator rebuild kit you can get for about $25 but it dosn't work so well on already worn variators, generally worth the investment in a replacement IMO.

While some cars do indeed lasta bit longer with the timing belt changes there is no way I would risk exceeding the recommendation, there is little value in doing it anyway as the second change to give you another 3 years is so economical to do. Perhaps I am overly cautious but the risk/reward on that gamble isn't great IMO.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 9:03pm
While eagles9999 clearly has some experience and I agree with the bulk of what's been said. Aside from selespeed issues I can't say I have come across any hit and miss repairs. With regard to diagnostics, you can set yourself up with a diagnostic and maintenance setup as good as the factory tools for about $150. While I own the gear I can't say I have ever hooked it up to either 156 as of yet.

If you are mechanically minded there is really no need at all to avoid one if you live outside a main centre. You can do your own diagnostics and all parts are available overnight. I have never needed to take any of my mechanics to a specialist for anything ever. The 156 2.0's are really very nice to work on and quite straightforward IMO.

I would agree with being in a main centre or alternatively having access to a good sensible general garage who can use their brains. If you just want to drive it and never make any effort to check the right things are being changed at service time etc. In other words, pro-active owners reap the rewards. Although, given that you only need a major service every 3 years and specialist diagnostics and repairs are rare. I don't see why you couldn't just take it to a nearby city when needed. It would be a very very odd thing to have a fault that made the car immobile.

That said, these are a car for someone who is going to appreciate a far superior vehicle for the price in return for a little bit more effort arranging servicing etc than you would get with a Corolla.

Basically if you use your brains and common sense they have a very low total cost of ownership. But you need to do and understand the math, and not just be prone to running around with your hands in the air anytime the slightest thing needs attention.
tigra, Jul 29, 9:39pm
Well I have now sold my Alfa 156 and likeeagles9999 have had problems finding reliable service in the Wellington area.Got fed up with having to go back 3 or more times to get faults accurately diagnosed and fixed with high labour bills each time, not to mention"diagnostic charges" each time I really enjoyed my Alfa and personally have not regretted the 4 years of fun I have had, buthave not enjoyed the several periods of finding and fixing faults (some quite minor) I have endured.DIY diagnosing and fixing is not for the fainthearted, sure you can get the software and use a laptop to simulate the garages more sophisticated equipment, and the Alfa Forum offers help but it requires a greater expertise than the weekend driver often has. However that aside from a "fun per buck" aspect they do offer a driving experience you cannot buy for a lot more money elsewhere. I'd buy another - tho I love my Merc 3.2 coupe, - but it would have to come with a full pass sheet from a fully authorised specialist garage and at least a 12 month parts and labour warranty
tigra, Jul 29, 9:41pm
Also I thinkk I would buy NZ new not an import because servicing history is vital with Alfa's
budgel, Jul 29, 10:08pm
Jazz, is changing the cambelt etc. on a 3litre much more expensive/difficult!
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 11:03pm
Yes, its more involved. Its not the absolute nightmare its made out to be (quite doable by the sensible home mechanic) but it is a bit of a squeeze.

If you were paying someone to do it then its generally going to cost more overall(I would take a shot in the dark and say $500 - $1000 more) as its much more time intensive (2.0 can be quite speedy if you know what you are doing). Parts wise I havn't priced for a while but generally cheaper than doing the 2.0 properly if I recall right.

One advantage of the V6 is that you get a longer timing belt interval.

I wouldn't buy a V6 for the longer service interval though, it is a false economy due to the very significant fuel economy difference. Overall on a per year basis I would expect service costs to be pretty similar too.

Other than it being a fabulous engine with a wonderful sound and power delivery a good reason to buy the V6 would be if you want an automatic. The V6 comes with a very good regular auto with H gate manual select if you want it. Its only 4 gears but with the V6's flexibility that's absolutely fine in this application.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 11:12pm
At the risk of derailing the thread. What gets me withthreads like this is how poor some mechanics and even so called specialists must be in this country.

I am not in any way doubting the experiences of others nor saying all mechanics are useless.

What I am saying is it disturbs me that even in Wellington tigra has experiences like that. These are not overly sophisticated cars by today's standards, they are generally very well designed and good to work on. There is endless support available online and fully detailed resources on every conceivable part. Likewise the software you can buy for $75 is no cheap imitation, its easy to use and fully functional.

No wonder people go to absurd lengths to try and buy cars a lawnmower mechanic would understand. Such a shame.

BTW, I say the above being fully aware that I do have a bit more time up my sleeve to research a procedure and while very much an amateur am probably much more familiar with these than the typical busy mechanic.

That doesn't give the specialists an excuse though, also, while my specific experience is very good the general experience and understanding they gain through sheer volume should count for something.
tigra, Jul 29, 11:41pm
Regarding Alfa ( and other servicing) in Welly. When I first bought I used GT Continental (Gazeley Tory)in Newtown and they were excellent. Knowledgeable mechs and even more knowledgeable reception (Olivia) they really went the extra mile to help and obtain parts. then they moved this workshop back into the main servicing in Kent Tce and it all changed. Very obviously. Unless you havea $30,000 car you didnt fit their customer model and seemed to get treated on that basis. The reception seemed more angled to getting you intoa regular return servicing mode than anything else, and instructions often didnt get passed on to the mechanics. Unfortunately Jazz they also service VW's and Fiats.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 29, 11:48pm
Yip its often the way. There are certain other "Prestige" outfits who do Fiat and VW who are every bit as hopeless that I have seen too. It seems worse with any vehicle that can be classed as "prestige" its just an excuse to sucker people.

By the same token though, there are some good ones and some excellent third party specialists as well. Finding them is the hard part.
chris_051, Jul 30, 2:28am
Cheers jazz the car has done 40k/5yrs since belts were last changed, the car is a 5 spd wouldnt touch a semi auto, being quoted 640+ gst for both belt kits and waterpump, 4 hrs labour, just over a grand all up, not too bad I thought. It will only be used for a shopping trolley, a mk4 Golf GTi and Polo GTi go for similar coin, could also get a look in. Owning jap shit is one rung above topping yourself, when youve really given up on life lol.
thejazzpianoma, Jul 30, 2:55am
I would advise against the Polo GTI for similar coin, IMO the only decent Polo is the current one. Golf GTI is another story though although the 156's are often better value.

If this is a twinspark as opposed to the newer JTS then insist on doing the variator as well, don't let yourself get talked into leaving it as more than likely you will have to do the whole job over again. Plus you waste fuel while its not running right. You can pick a genuine variator up for $200 online so hardly end of the world. Twinsparks and JTS's also use different oil, its pretty imperative to use the correct one especially with the JTS where there is really only one off the shelf brand/weight.

I always do variator seals and a cam cover seal (as you take it off to lock the cams) as well.

If paying someone else to do it just make sure they are indeed using cam lock's and a proper Dial Indicator, so many cowboy's try to mark the belt and are oblivious to the reasons why this does not work. (Car runs, economy/power suffers).

Sounds like the right sort of thing, pricing is not too bad if they are doing a proper job incl new coolant etc. You could save a bit on parts though too if you did it yourself. Either way just make sure you get it done a.s.a.p.
Let me know if you want a link to the video, it may be a job you would rather do yourself so you know its been done right. But if you hate working on cars so much well fair enough palming it off I guess.

If you know what km's it has done I might be able to give you a heads up on what else needs doing.

BTW, they are very nice around town but a bit sad this won't be seeing some spirited leg stretching! Top work on looking outside the square and doing the math.