So I got a ticket in a customers car for not wearing a seat belt. Long story but was picking up parts reversed onto road at busy intersection no turn around point. Traffic was coming so drove off as I drove off i put my seat belt on within 5 secs I had my belt on in this time a cop seen me, he was standing on side of the road. (looking for people with no seat belt on) his mate pulled me up 200m from the drive I had reversed out. He asked if I was test driving I said I was picking up parts. We had a brief convo. 3 days later ticket in the mail. I get back to work first thing boss said was did the car cut out. Unknown to me at time I was test driving. I check legislation out. If I am reversing I do not have to wear seat belt. If I am involved in the servicing of vehicles I do not have to wear seat belt. Now thing is I was wearing my seat belt. So boss wrote a letter stating I was test driving. I attached what happened ie reversed onto road. Don't have to wear seat belt, test driving don't have to wear seat belt, Also stated I was wearing seat belt. I got a letter back stating the fine still stands so requested a court date. Now the thing is reading through ticket and court documents I have to accept liability and plead guilty but can put in submissions to be heard. If I plead not guilty It goes to trial. My question is why would I have to plead guilty to a offence I did not commit.
pc_uncorrect,
Jun 15, 12:38pm
You dont, they are trying to manipulate you into doing so, or you accept the police claim/s on proof of claim & on proof of loss, this puts the ball in the police's court to stump-up with the goods (evidence).
lookoutas,
Jun 15, 12:39pm
I heard of a guy getting a ticket after reversing out of a carpark without belt on. Good news for us is the new camera situated about 100 meters up the road from the workshop, which is monitored at the Police Station. Bad news is, gotta get those belts on before venturing onto the road now.
I thought tradesmen driving customers cars had a waiver if they didn't exceed a certain speed. Something like 30k's.
cammey,
Jun 15, 12:47pm
My advice is when dealing with the police, remember they have a job to do, but are not always that good at it, and don't always have a full understanding of the law. Be polite. At the side of the road, say nothing, and make no effort to argue your case, just accept the ticket.
Then, if you find that you have grounds for a defence (as you clearly do) DONT offer an explanation to police - thats just giving them advance warning of your defence.
Make it clear you intend to plead not guilty and you are happy to go to court. And see what happens.
I have defended many daft tickets over the years, and I have invariably found the judge sympathetic to evidence like you have.
I have also found, that the police will pull the pin once they know its going to court.
Around 50% of the tickets I have decided to contest have resulted in the charge going away, especially in cases like this where its apparent you have a very high chance of success in court.
tamarillo,
Jun 15, 12:49pm
If you're sure of legislation don't plead guilty. Let it go to court. I THINK it will at the justice of peace, they are allowed to rule on most minor traffic offences. Cops are not lawyers or experts and don't know the minor points of law, so if you're sure fight it. But you need to be really sure of legislation and that you can argue it applies to you. If it says only whilst servicing vehicle you'll struggle claiming an exemption. There also an exemption if you're reversing and cannot safety put belt on, though that's hard to prove. What's the relevant act?
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 15, 12:58pm
I think it's time that there was a penalty for Police "trying it on" and issuing tickets for offences that don't exist. THIS would actually be a useful performance indicator, however the powers at be would much rather keep the hierarchy happy by keeping it mostly revenue based.
Also, it's only fair that if the Police expect to be able to punish the public for not knowing and following the law that they are subject to the same.
tony9,
Jun 15, 1:03pm
The cop at the time would have noted that you explicitly did not use testing as a defense. You appear to have now changed your story. No amount of duck shoveling will help. Just pay up and shut up.
And if your boss does still want to pursue it, have a look at perverting the course of justice in the crimes act.
martin11,
Jun 15, 1:11pm
Yes can get an exemption for wearing a seat while test driving a car but you have to apply and pay for it and if it is approved you will get a letter which you must carry at all time while driving . Did you have one ? bigfatmat1
edbabynz,
Jun 15, 1:14pm
Where is the fun in that?
I recently got a ticket for operating a motor vehicle on the road when it was not licensed.
Um it is a trailer and it was parked on a grassplot (according to another ticket i got at the same time). LOL
ozz1,
Jun 15, 1:42pm
i like this. phil and matt in court with hake . ? nelson mail. front page. :)
msigg,
Jun 15, 2:01pm
as I drove off I put my seat belt on. Mate you put your seat belt on before the car moves. End of story. All this stuff of reversing and test driving is all rubbish. The seat belt is there for safety. Wear it. If you go through the windscreen from someone rear ending you then too late for 'put seat belt on". Pay the fine and stop trying to worm your way out of it. $150 fine is cheap when you remember to do it next time and it might save your life.
bigfatmat1,
Jun 15, 2:10pm
I was wearing it I always wear it! The drive is a absolute mongrel to reverse out of traffic islands traffic lights busy intersection cars parked in way limited visibility. I chose not wear as I reversed because it impaired my ability to reverse properly which is quite within my legal rights. I drove off then fitted it because the lights had changed and was in a blindspot to turning traffic. As soon as I was moving i fitted it. Also the law states involved in servicing which I am so regardless of a test drive picking up parts I fixed the vehicle I am involved in the servicing of that vehicle.
Really? no one is perverting justice. I was test driving unknown to me at the time. But the legislation says "involved in servicing" http://www.legislation.govt.nz/regulation/public/2004/0427/latest/DLM303629.html No ones story has changed either. Its been added to Also its got nothing to do with my boss. He just supplied a letter staing testdriving. No lie there. Read original post!
bigfatmat1,
Jun 15, 2:23pm
Also on the disclosure of information act I have the police officers written notes. It says I reversed out of driveway 100m away and put it on as i drove off! NB I was wearing seatbelt when pulled over under compliance additional notes: N/a under offence it says "seen putting seatbelt on by xxxxx" under m401 it says admits offence it says "yes"
bigfatmat1,
Jun 15, 2:32pm
Anyway this thread is way off topic again the question is why would i have to admit liability? Not hear to listen to the do gooder keyboard warriors. Also is this why my excuse was not accepted because i did not admit liabilty?
I think by your own admission you were NOT test driving or servicing car at the time. If you were indeed doing that you would have said, "I am test driving this officer" but you said, "I'm collecting parts" And You also weren't sent off to test drive by the boss as he didn't direct you to, did he? I don't have any issue with the way you done what you did but you didn't use what defense was available to you at the time. You got back to base and later checked up to see if you had one and decided you did. Yea, you did if you were knowingly test driving at time, but you were parts collecting. But defend it for sure as that is your right.
bigfatmat1,
Jun 15, 2:42pm
Yes boss told me to take that particular car to pick parts up. In a vehicle that I latter fixed!
snoopy221,
Jun 15, 2:56pm
Q? do you wear overalls l? Q? were you wearing them at the time?
eslnz.com,
Jun 15, 2:57pm
They arent mutually exclusive. You can collect parts while test driving. You may wish to take the vehicle while servicing it to the parts store to ensure you get the correct part.
gunhand,
Jun 15, 2:58pm
Ok, but did he say, also check for X Y Z problem or just say, take it to get parts? I think a boss manager or whatever would say, "go get parts in that car and while your at it see if you notice X Y Z problem at the time" How would you no there was or wasn't any issue or car wasn't fully fixed at another time that day etc etc. Unfortunately it sounds like you had no idea you were also test driving at the time. even if you were. And in the end is it worth the drama? Or is it just to get one over the cops even though you said yourself what you were doing? The first thing cops ask as a rule is, Do you know why I stopped you, hoping you will say, "oh yea I was doing 70kph in a 50kph area, sorry didn't see the sign, BLAH BLAH" therefore admitting your own guilt. Can't change ya mind to suit later really. So from now on every time you are in a customers car you are doing what? Do you always use customers cars to collect parts or a work car etc? Splitting hairs all this maybe but it's just another look at it.
gunhand,
Jun 15, 3:00pm
If buts and maybes, you can fit anything into this situation to make it work, and it just might. Hardly a murder trial. yet.
bigfatmat1,
Jun 15, 3:01pm
yes and yes
bigfatmat1,
Jun 15, 3:05pm
If you read the the legislation It says involved in the servicing of the vehicle. So picking up parts to me is involved in the servicing of that vehicle. Also the reason in defending is because I was wearing my seatbelt. It took me 5 secs to fit in after reversing onto the road as i did while i was moving off. We could debate this all day I am just asking about admitting liability. Why would I do this if I am defending Do I need to do this to get my submission heard? Is this why My submission was not accepteted?
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