Proof of ownership

pepper-nala, Jun 30, 8:04pm

in process of selling vehicle, new owner wants my drivers licence to do a proof of ownership which i think if a bit sus don't know why this is needed to prove I own the vehicle. any one else had this

phalanax, Jun 30, 8:11pm

An easy way of having a record of whom the transaction occurred with. make sure you get their details as well . Ideally you should make out a sale receipt . sold to ,for ,on this day, with this ID,signatures . saves any hassles if they dont change the registered owner details. (means you wont end up paying their fines). lol. (Changing the registered ownership at the postshop is not really proof of ownership ) A paper trail speaks louder than words.

ross1970, Jul 1, 6:02am

What's sus about it. They just want to do a free registered person check on the NZTA website. Not a biggee. Do it your self then and show them the result.

jonners2013, Jul 1, 6:29am

they want to make sure they're not buying a stolen vehicle. seem logical to me.

phalanax, Jul 1, 10:26am

Oh id say if you had irrefutable (written ,signed and id'd) evidence that you sold the car on a particular date and fines owing occurred after this date. You would inevitably win. in fact I doubt whether they would even bother trying to take you to court if you posted or emailed them evidence of this. However if you had a sad story. well thats another thing. How do I know because they tried it with me. (by the way it is up to the current owner to try and make sure the new owner has changed the title ,but you really only have to do what is reasonble) It was a long weekend the postshop.ltsa agents were all closed. and I sold the car. a month later they posted me a ticket. I rang them I said I had proof of the sale I said i sent in the notice of information of change of owner they required by post and it wasnt my fault the new owner hadnt changed it over. I said i couldnt get the person to do the ownership change because the land transport agents were all closed.and I said I wanted the cash and did everything a reasonable person could have done. they confirmed with me the new owners details . and pulled the ticket.

phalanax, Jul 1, 10:39am

You obviously didnt contact the right people or tell them to take you to court. because they would have lost. Why would anybody pay someone elses fine? I wouldnt thats for sure. Did you post off notice of change of ownership to them. after you sold it to the wreckers. if you do everything your supposed to do. they dont come after you. In fact you dont even need to do everything. you just need to take reasonable steps. but you did have to post them the notice of change of ownership. or have a reasonable excuse as to why you didnt.

phalanax, Jul 1, 10:54am

You must have had a shite lawyer. do you realise what your saying is that possibly hundreds of people are paying other folks fines. sounds to me like you didnt do something you were supposed to do and you didnt have a reasonable excuse or sufficient written evidence. good luck thinking you can get thru life beating folk up. chances are sooner or later, one day you will come off second best. even Iron mike tyson got scrambled on a bad day at the office. lol.

cammey, Jul 1, 12:55pm

Fraud. So easy to do if you have someone's driver licence details. You can change their address online. Move stolen vehicles in and out of their name. Get electricity on at your p lab.

Very silly to ever disclose driver licence details. Especially as you can check the registered persons details are correct on line at nzta without it.

elect70, Jul 1, 1:49pm

Munch is right i got caught the same way , sold a car to wrecker got receipt but as it was to be wrecked left it up to him to hand in plates , but he didnt , instead bodged it up & flogged it off & rego still in my name . It was found abandoned couple months later & i got the fine for not doing change or dereging it.

phalanax, Jul 1, 2:31pm

I agree you cant just give a car to someone and walk away receipt or no receipt. there are certain things you have to do. (yep I sold a car to a wrecker. but pulled and handed in the plates first) . but you are only expected to do what is reasonable. ie if all the postshops are closed and bobs from Wellington and wants to take the car right now and has the cash and you want the sale. you wouldnt be expected to forgo the sale rather you would take reasonable steps to ensure you know who the new owner is and record the sale and also notify the transport agency you have sold the car to them asap. I rang them as soon as I sold my car once and told them all the agencies are closed . no they didnt like it . but I told them cars sold, im posting you in the form (you had to at that time) and as far as im concerned ive got proof of the sale. you have been notified. they took the details off me and told me that was all good. they didnt like it. but I told them I need the money and its not my fault everything is closed.

pepper-nala, Jul 1, 3:14pm

Thanks I have the ownership papers which I have shown and am not going to give out my license details, says on some web site check that vehicle is not stolen so don't know why they would need anything else, she took an hour to look over the vehicle it is in immaculate condition and a 2006 so nothing wrong, she just being annoying have told her I am not selling vehicle to her, don't care if i loose a sale.

lookoutas, Jul 1, 4:19pm

Don't know what the problem is here. This is a case where YOU need to look after yourself.
I have never sold a vehicle privately without changing the ownership (on line) myself. Right there and then.

But this is a bit off the OP's subject. As per normal :-)
OP probably has more reason to check punters licence.

cammey, Jul 1, 4:28pm

The reason I know about the danger of disclosing driver licence details is similar.

I sold a car to a scrap metal man, who had a letter on the wall from the police that "required" him to take the driver licence details of anyone selling a large amount of scrap.

He copied my licence, I thought nothing of it.

Now, I can't prove that he was the person who did this, as I had also let a hirepool company, and a video shop copy my licence, and the police were not interested in following it up.

But, someone used my licence details online to change my address and redirect my mail, at post, and NZTA.

They then used my driver licence details to buy and sell a large number of cars, which I am sure were being illegally traded and having VIN numbers swapped.

I was sent a letter regarding my excessive vehicle trading, but as my address had been changed I never got it, nor did I get the swath of camera and parking fines.

A "Q" card was obtained in my name, as were several expensive cell phones, and I ran up some massive electricity accounts in rental properties I had never rented.

The police showed very little interest, and I had a massive battle over the fines and credit rating. Which still bites from time to time.

It all happens as the NZTA think they are in the ID card business, and "confirm" identity based on driver licence details for a few pieces of silver.

They are unapologetic about it BTW, and when informed of the fraud essentially say "we don't confirm ID just the details and blah blah"

NEVER allow anyone except a traffic cop see your driver licence would be my advice. It well worth the argument at the time with the guy who wants it, than the years of pain if he, or someone crook who works for him sells it.

holdensorfords, Jul 1, 8:13pm

http://www.carjam.co.nz/owner-check/

Just need plate or VIN, 1st name & surname.

franc123, Jul 1, 8:25pm

Lol its an old scam, anyone with brains hands in the plates before leaving a vehicle with a scrappy or a wrecker, if its worth more as a road going unit than it is for scrap or as parts it will more than likely get hocked off complete. These industries have more than their fair share of unscrupulous types who rub shoulders with criminals and/or disqualified drivers who need wheels asap after their latest car has been impounded.

elect70, Jul 2, 11:55am

Yep risky but scrappys take drivers licence details & an electronic signature or wont take the scrap , drivers licence is defacto Id card despite govt denials when photo cards licences were released . Everyone wants to see it from banks to hire centres to councils

cammey, Jul 2, 5:37pm

Turns out, that its actually illegal, although no one seems to care. A driver licence contains a unique identifier - the driver licence number. Demanding it breaches the privacy act.

Principle 12,4
"An agency shall not require an individual to disclose any unique identifier assigned to that individual unless the disclosure is for one of the purposes in connection with which that unique identifier was assigned or for a purpose that is directly related to one of those purposes."

But no one, not even the privacy commission seem to care.

phalanax, Jul 2, 7:25pm

Well my 'story' and evidential disclosure got me out of paying someone elses fine. must have been my lucky day, by the way you werent able to do a vehicle change of ownership from home online back then . I dont know when the online gig kicked in. just telling it as it was. sorry to hear you had to pay. one thing for sure it seems you were not alone. I guess if I ever sell another car I will be making sure folk have changed it over before I let them take it away.

angelab, Jul 3, 5:00am

phalanax, Well done. I don't think I would have been that restrained after that lot from "him" He may be on holiday now?

pepper-nala, Mar 29, 11:25am

I did the check myself showed her proof now all of a sudden she no longer wants the vehicle, so wonder what she was up to. think i had a lucky escape

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