OP in laymans terms that i will understand. Good luck with that, ha ha.
mals69,
Aug 24, 9:45am
When fuel ignites in the bore and goes KaaaaBoooom and the pistons are forced down and turns the crankshaft that is connected to the drivetrain - this twisting force on the crank is called Torque. Times the torque by the RPM and you get the Horsepower figure. Am I correct or talking load of BS lollol ?
richardmayes,
Aug 24, 9:48am
Power is the rate of work done per unit time, it is also what wins car races and what gets a heavy weight (that is already moving) to the top of a big hill on the highway, it is usually obtained by revving the engine as fast as it can realistically rev.
Torque is a measure of static twisting force, torque is also what pulls a stationary horse float out of the mud or a big trailer boat out of the water without a lot of revving of the engine and slipping of the clutch.
(It's also talked about informally in performance car world as a measure of what your engine can do when it's NOT revving away at the top end.)
A Ford falcon with a 4.0 litre engine and a Honda Torneo with a 2.2 litre engine can both make about 215 horsepower. The Honda engine has to go over 7,000rpm to do it, and the Falcon does it at less than 5,000rpm. The peak torque output of the little Honda engine is 163 ft-lbs but to do that it has to be revving at 6700rpm - not much less than where the peak power is.The peak torque of the Falcon engine is 263 ft-lbs - 60% more, and that is available from a much lower 3,000rpm.
Which is why you see young excitable people driving Honda Torneos like race cars, using all the gears to keep the engine up in the power band, and why you see Ford Falcons towing big heavy trailers, and only occasionally the other way around.
bwg11,
Aug 24, 10:11am
Agreed. This is why a 2 litre Amarok with 420 Nm of torque can't tow anything like a 4.5 litre 70 Series Cruiser with only 430 Nm.
tintop,
Aug 24, 10:21am
Yes you are correct, RG Nixon in #6 has it, but unfortunately to be of any use the units need to be defined.
.RG says : Horsepower = (Torque x RPMs) / 5252
In this equation torgue is measured in foot.pounds, rpm is understood, and Horsepower is where 1 Hp = 756 Watt.
The constant factor 1/5252 is for that particular equation. If the torque figure was give as a newton.metre unit, and the output desired was to be in kW, then the constant factor will be different.
tintop,
Aug 24, 10:55am
oops - I hp = 745.699872W
tweake,
Aug 24, 11:36am
again people miss the basics. power to the ground is what counts.
the honda doing 6700rpm is lower geared than the flacon doing 3000 rpm. so honda is about 2.2:1 lower geared. the torque multiplying through the gearing means that the honda is effectively putting out 364 ft/lb compared to the falcon's 263 ft/lb.
the falcon just got its arse spanked !
richardmayes,
Aug 24, 11:48am
^^^ Which is useful IF you are in a position where you can be doing 6700rpm. At the boat ramp? In a paddock?
richardmayes,
Aug 24, 11:52am
And why do excitable people always talk about the performance of their cars and others in terms like "got its arse spanked?"
tweake,
Aug 24, 11:54am
anytime you like, its just gearing.
the point is engine output is only part of it. what it actually delivers to the ground is what counts.
tweake,
Aug 24, 12:11pm
it actually hasn't got much to do with it. i havn't looked at the gearing but assuming close enough they will tow fine once up to speed.
the big difference is getting off the line. small diesels have the issue of not having any/much boost at idle and can't build it fast enough to be able to make full power, especially in the lower gears. BMW i think has a triple turbo with one turbo dedicated for idle conditions.
there is where supercharger is better and sheer cubic capacity wins. they generate power straight away which what you want for towing.
its not all about max torque/power.
aj.2.,
Aug 24, 12:25pm
Then the issue of rubber on the road comes into play , it's no good having all that horse power , and torque if you can't control it , so the bigger wheels are needed , FATTER ARE BETTER .
tweake,
Aug 24, 12:36pm
absolutely, you have to have enough traction to do the job. even if AWD or 4WD is required. but there is also a cost to having big tires, awd/4wd etc. just a matter of finding the right setup to suit.
saki,
Aug 24, 1:07pm
HP is how fast you hit the wall torque is how far you go through the wall.
aj.2.,
Aug 24, 1:12pm
Now thats foolish driving if you can't control the vehicle, you really must pay more attention to the road. Drive safe out there folks.
richardmayes,
Aug 24, 1:18pm
You'd need a pretty low 1st gear to be doing 6700rpm pulling a big trailer boat out of the water!
tweake,
Aug 24, 1:31pm
not that hard to do. would still be fairly high geared compared to what 4wd's can have.
mals69,
Aug 24, 2:09pm
Cheers tintop - I drifted off after reading fruit boys post and just posted.
Bigger the block the bigger the shock - no replacement for displacement so so true. 70 Z28 camaro 350 putting out round same torque and HP as LS1 V8, used more gas but not the exspense of replacing coil packs etc. Power output not changed much in 40 plus years cause guess all comes back to the raw explosion in the bore ?
mrcat1,
Aug 24, 3:17pm
And why a cruiser cant tow anything like a Navara.
tintop,
Aug 24, 4:19pm
You can twiddle and fiddle as much as you like, but there is no substitute for 'cubes'
mals69,
Aug 24, 5:39pm
Well put tintop - yep yep yep cubes cubes cubes
monaro17,
Aug 24, 5:41pm
This is actually very interesting and relates to my current quandary. I tow a 1800-1900kg caravan with my 2010 V6 Commodore S/W (210kw @6700 and 350Nm @ 2900) and am pondering the switch to a R series Hyundai Santa Fe (146kw @3800 and 445Nm @1800rpm)- both have 6 speed autos. Is it worth the changing? Would the santa fe be a better tower?
Interested in your thoughts
chas10,
Aug 24, 5:58pm
Santa Fe would tow much better than the commodore
mals69,
Aug 24, 6:07pm
Probably like you quoted - your dunnydore - cubes cubes cubes John holmes had to work less than the average man - bigger the donk the better - what cubed korean are you looking at ?
monaro17,
Sep 5, 5:08am
the Hyundai is a 2.2 turbo diesel.
However I do believe that the old "no replacement for displacement" line is no longer always valid- especially when it comes to turbocharging.
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