Socram

rob_man, Feb 18, 10:08am
socram, Feb 18, 11:06am
Sob, sob. Ford V6 by the looks of it - with a later bonnet spoiler.
kazbanz, Feb 18, 11:48am
probably buy it for 500 quid and ship it for $3000
smac, Feb 18, 12:28pm
Did that come before or after the 2000GT?
socram, Feb 18, 4:28pm
Even restored, getting it complianced in NZ may be an issue.

I can't tell from that pic whether or not it is steel chassis or plywood and I can't see the rego plate either. Getting a plywood chassis car through compliance may be an issue as seat belt anchorages are a problem.

Probably 1968/1970?
smac, Feb 18, 4:58pm
Ah right, so a blatant blighty rip-off of the 2000GT ;)
tamarillo, Feb 18, 5:33pm
someone will restore it, solid steel chassis is separate on later ones, and glass body can be fixed. years ago I had a 69 TVR Tuscan with body not too far off that and it came up lovely, and i learnt some new skills on way. Much easier to fix fibre glass than metal for me anyway.
Damn Marcos does look so good. Earlier ones had Volvo engines i think? Ford V6 was okay but heavy for power given. Nice little lexus V8 would suit me thinks.
tamarillo, Feb 18, 5:39pm
Not at all, This Marcos shape was done by a very famous chap by name of Frank Costin, and this shape first appeared in 64 - before the toyota was ever shown to public. Costin was an original thinker big time and famous for work on car aerodynamics.

Maybe Toyota saw Costins work? In those days they were famous at copying others work.
tamarillo, Feb 18, 5:45pm
MAYBE that front chin spoiler makes it later car - only few 3 litres V6's were done with wooden chassis and only later ones had that - or it could be added on later.
socram, Feb 18, 6:04pm
None of the 3 litre sixes (Volvo or Ford) had the chin spoiler. That came out with one of the many re-birth's after the company crashed 1971.

Dr Jonathon Palmer's V6 racer had a spoiler but as a race car, no surprise.

The wheels in the pic are neither Ford V6 Marcos alloys nor the Cosmics that were on the Volvo. The body shape was also the work of Dennis Adams as Costin was the chassis man and developed the plywood chassis on the original ugly duckling (recently sold at auction) and the Luton Gull Wing. He left the company in 1961, so the Adams brothers were responsible for this shape.

The reason they shifted to a spaceframe chassis was simply one of cost, as the time taken to cut and glue 350 pieces of ply was excessive, but most steel chassis cars of that age have galloping rust! Not overly expensive to restore and original chassis jigs still exist but original Marcos unique stuff is expensive.

Incidentally, the early 2 litre plywood chassis Volvo B20 cars are still very successful historic racers as only a nutter would race a front heavy Volvo 6.
tamarillo, Feb 18, 7:03pm
Socram, you know your Marcos! Have you ever driven one? I've not but tried! Was told it's like the tvr but more stable and less lively, in a good way!
rob_man, Feb 18, 7:18pm
Just for the record, the pic was labelled as a 1600 on facebook where I stole it from.
twink19, Feb 18, 7:52pm
yes has, even races one
smac, Feb 18, 8:36pm
Interesting cross over in dates. The info I've seen in the past says the Toyota was first shown in '65, so certainly would have been confirmed for a period before that. Would be fascinating to know whether the two designers were in a known/friendly collaboration, or if it really was a case of. borrowed. design by one of them. There's no way those two cars could have appeared at the same time by pure coincidence alone.
tamarillo, Feb 18, 9:47pm
I had never considered any likeness and have never heard it mentioned before or read it in numbers articles about Marcos over years. I can see what you mean but don't see such likeness as to think bad of either. it was an era of new aero and this i what it produced. In 20 years most current cars will look the same to most.
socram, Feb 19, 8:06am
You could even look at the Cheetah and see similarities but any two seater coupe with a longish bonnet and short tail is going to have similarities.

I doubt very much that there was ever any hint of collaboration.

Thank's rob_man. There were many different engines used over te years ranging from 997cc Ford, 1600cc Ford, 1800cc Volvo, Ford V4, Ford V6, Volvo 6, Triumph 6, Rover 2 litre, Rover 3.5 through to Rover 5.0 litre, Chevrolet and Ford Mustang V8. Individuals may well have popped other stuff in too, from Alfa Twin cams upwards, as many cars were originally sold in kitset form, or assembled by recognized suppliers. Later ones were all factory built once the purchase tax for kit cars concession was abolished. That sad pic could even be a 1980's car, which might explain the spoiler and the wheels! The shape of the 1964 original never changed until the V8's came our in the 1983 reawakening - Mantara, Mantula etc.

Despite the longevity, from 1959 to about 2002, on and off, there were probably less than 1500 Marcos cars built and there are known to be 10 or 11 in NZ, with at least three known to be off the road. There may well be a Ford V6 for sale (in fair condition) and another car converted from V4 to V6 languishing in the middle of the north island, probably needing a full restoration by now, after the owner passed away. His widow is a little reclusive.

Tamarillo, the only TVR 3000M I have ridden in seemed far less secure and stable on track than the Volvo 3 litre six but they do have a similar top speed.

The yellow LM500 (now in the South Island - sadly) was initially built as a works Le Mans race car, but despite the overall body shape, retains the same doors and cockpit as the 1964 original but has about 500bhp rather than 100!
attitudedesignz, Feb 19, 9:14am
His username should be the answer I would've thought.
tamarillo, Feb 19, 9:53am
Eh? I'm Being stupid so don't get it.

But now know indeed socram is a master and I hereby declare my respect.
attitudedesignz, Feb 19, 10:14am
Marcos backwards.
trogedon, Feb 19, 10:41am
Easy to know if typing in a mirror!
socram, Jun 11, 4:04am
Drat. My cover is blown.

Hardly, seeing as I have been on here since Nov 2004 and quite a few of you know me anyway.

Incidentally, the ex Jackie Stewart Stewart Marcos Xylon (that is Greek for plywood shed. almost), also raced in historics by Jem Marsh, sold for 41,000GBP - which I thought a good buy for a car with such history.