OBD ii & scan tools

Hi.

I just saw intrade post a link for J2534 from Drew Technologies.
This pass threw type reprograming is a standard for most dealers and people that really know whats what with how to keep our new cars working properly.
I'd say most local workshops would have no idea about what it takes to reprogram a ECM. if reprograming is a issue most will just run the car back threw the dealer and jam on 15% at the end for all there trouble haha.
Updated software is sometimes really the only way to cure certain issues.
The dealers put the vehicles out on the market then smooth out the calibrations as issues present in the market.
TO do this reprograming is not all that hard but you do need a little bit of understanding and gear to do it.
So for a workshop to go to this level to really sort out your vehicle means they probs have some idea about what they are doing.

You have another type of workshop out there too.
They are the ones that have the basic scan tool they pull codes out of your car and charge you $50 + for there trouble & you drive out wondering what you are going to do now.

I guess what i'm getting at is that we have moved on a bit from scanning vehicles and charging huge amounts. A basic code check should be free at service. Being charged for a 2 min diagnostic read is extortion.

got to go to work to be continued

yea there is now 3 levels of scanns the global emission stuff is room 1
then there is the factory stuff room number 2 and then there is the tools whom can reprogramm and the new standard is j25-34
now most people dont even know there is 2 rooms .
there is the code scanners for 15 to 100$ they can do some or all of the obd2 generic otherwise knowen as room number 1 emission codes room.

Then there is the more expensive tools 200 to 5000$ whom can do multi make manufacturer codes and actuate - execute comands from the scanner like open and shut a egr-exhaust emission valve thats oem level.
then there is the programmers there is loads for chiptune aftermarket tools etc
but the new world standard is j2534 and the ones whom adopted that standard usually also supply software for factory level diagnostic and programming with subscription as per the link you seen me post

there is also aftermarket scanner whom can do room 1 for all makes and room 2 for the cars they list . i have this tool for vw as its low cost compeired to it being 98% factory level
and another one is autologic it can do a few makes to full factory level if you pay enough like 16 tausend for 4 makes i think it has .
these 2 are the only ones i know off who do factory level

other tools like launch maxi-das and loads others they might do the oem stuff they might not or they might have stuff listed and empty comands no programming behind the comands . the tool is as good as its software only.

the good news is the j25-34 is fully oem with subscription to manufacturer
but yea if you dont even know there is room 2 then one should probably not buy a j2534 and start flashing and messing abouts .
before they got propper training and understanding of electronics and what its doing in automotive applications.

Interesting. I understand the j2534 pass threw system I come from a GM Holden background with tech 2 & MDI. (multi diagnostic interface)
which you can buy from ali express for about $300
Ma

But interesting I have not come across the "3 rooms of operation"
But I do know of the 10 Modes of operation. I would bench mark a scan tool on if it can do MODE 6 as this can be one of the useful items.
BUT as you say they are only as good as the software that drives it. I have seen scan tools that show "live data" the data line that you read is ok and works but all the other live data is dead. This was a pc base scan tool and it seamed convincing but in fact it was not useful at all other than pulling codes.

I don't think the usual automotive workshop is keeping up on scan tools.
They seam to be happy just milking the customers pulling codes but there will come a day when the magic rubs off and room 1 diagnostics will become something that a student at school could work threw. It nearly is now.

What would your pick be for a scan tool that is best bang for dollar?
If you were to go out and buy the cheapest scan tool with the most useful functions that had a range of software that was broad enough to cover most of day to day brands what would you pick ? It does not need to do J2534. I have software hack to use the MDI to pass threw into most vehicles.

I just found a scanner called a foxwell NT644 and at about $600 it looks tempting. But I can't find anything good to read on them. and thats not good.

with them scanners its a problem to figure whats good and there is no one scanner whom is good in all its database .
the j2534 you still need the tech-2 for older stuff as that wont go back all the way to obd1 etc.
also mode 6 is one of the 10 modes in global obd . the room system i made up as a guy named robert McCuistian he talked about the 2 rooms . So i found that a good way for discription of the scantool system and the 3th room i made up thats the j2534 whom also has factory level programming.
you also need rippel free voltage supply to a car during programming
i have the cteck supply mode charger it is ripple free i checked with my picoscope
now to the foxwell there is youtubes about it but i dont know .
i did buy the 200$ vcs from stahlcar , i have found a new update file on the net for it and found out its a pc-max autoboss.
launch is good on toyota nissan but there is no support what so ever from launch so might as well stick with clones

currently my launch idiag is dead due to a error massege from the update either incompatible with android 6 or its launch whom made a crummy update its not the first time this happened . so i am not keen to buy there pro tool when they dont even answer any e-mails . might as well buy pirated tools then you know you got no support .

now you want to whatch this video or i have to write a whole book .
basically this is what it comes down to this guy has 24 or so oem scanners i think he said it cost 250,000us$ for all of them with ongoing costs.
he uses oem scanners because the multis just dont cut it.
Scan This! with John Anello

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jQwrXrG9Vg

Ah thats why the room system is new. I don't mind the analogy BTW.
with J2534 iv aways just put the charger on I think 13.5v seams to be what we use to set to. But I never thought to check it for ripples. But I have never had one drop out that I was not able to recover I did once bump the plug 1/2 way threw and it caused me to sweet for some time But I did not loose the ECM
It's interesting you say launch has bad support. I would have thought them to be reputable.
I think here in NZ with our import market being what it is makes it tuff it's understandable that some places carry a few different clones to try cover all our asian market.
Autologic is a sure choice if you have the money and you did enough euro work.
Tech 2 is really showing it's age and the cards that go in the top are Hellish expensive. though they may be cheap now.
The scan tool that is being pushed onto workshops here (nelson) is a AUTOLAND VEDIS II.the salesman reckons he has sold 4+ but at $6000 I think it gets into room 2 and can do a little bit of euro programing. but it's still a china scan tool and I think it's a risky bet for the money. Might as well have a few cheap clones.

Have you herd of YES? http://www.yesnz.net/
I was thinking of keeping my hand in the industry as it moves this guy is ment to be have some clever people working with him and he provides his own stand alone training to the industry.

I will watch that John Anello clip but it's gonna take more that 10 min so i'll have a look at it over the week. Thanks this is all great stuff getting it out of my head and to talk to someone that understands what im talking about,

Yes i know about the guy you talk about herbert is his name i done quite a few courses with www.aecs.net
it helped me to figure out what on the net is good and true information and what is bull. on scantool 1 course the first course i took i did learn that global obd2 tools what did he call it a yea shit lol .

and i did learn what fueltrims are and how to use them to diagnose problems from the numbers.
took me 30 minutes till i clicked what long therm and short therm is .

Short and long term trims are great. There are some very good youtube clips explaining these if you even need to remind yourself. I frequently do.

I can see your point with swapatron moron mechanics too. I will say that some dealers push there mechanics very hard. The dealer I worked at punched 80 cars min a day threw the doors.
Most have bonus systems. you work hard all month you make money and get to your targets you get a bonus at the end of the month.

With Diagnostics often it can be a step by step process. The diagnostic procedure is what takes the time and is a hard thing to charge for. Especially if you have quoted 1 hour to have a look and in real world it took 3 to work threw the process and get a result.
So simply put swapatron parts fitting has more of a profit margin than taking your time to work threw the issue. If you get stuck and the foreman is helping someone elese it's burning time. you are going to lose the chance to make bonus. It's a quicker thing to order a part and deal with it next time when the new part turns up.

The problem is not normally the mechanic. The system that he works too sux. It pritty much says make more money and at then end of the month if you earn enough we will give you bonus.

If you took all the pressure off the mechanic and paid him on the accuracy of his diagnostic fault finding then we would have a change in our work culture. Jobs would start being done correctly and not just rushed threw to get onto the next one.

Most dealers have 1 or 2 guys that are switched on that the hard jobs go to then whateva is left is given out to the rest of the workshop.
It wont fix every mechanic you are still going to have shit ones but
I feel the system is not doing us any favors and it's making swapatron morons not getting rid of them.

yes i did not invent swaptrons that was mat i just adopted it and added morons to it. mat recons only 2% on this planet have a clue in the diy about how to really diagnose cars. , i posted yea and 60% of professionals are swaptron morons . he replied if not more lol.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVC8qBwQlRw

He is about as good as it gets for diy guy , he is a lab scientist by trade hence i guess the no bulls approaches truth only with him.

Auto land is actually a good scantool. You can even use it as a interface to run oem software. It does a lot our hanatec doesn't do

http://www.searchautoparts.com/aftermarket-business/automotive-aftermarket-technology/auto-care-association-alerts-congress-anti-co?cid=95879

Cheers matt. I am yet to have a play with one.

Intrade. Thats I herd talk of this a while ago when I was doing a little bit of searching for what OBD iii would look like. Full nanny state capabilities. The ability to transmit emission info to regulatory authorities basicly so a fine can issued when your car makes to much emissions killing such industries as performance mods. Sux to that.

But where there is a will there is a way. people will find there way around it.
And like the artical says. The ECM should be the owners once the car is sold. Having said that. comercial jet aircraft engines I think are on lease and are not owned by company that owns the air frame. So anything is possible.

Matt whats your pick of the clone tools?