15 grand new punto twin air

Panda, I meant panda.

That's a crazy price! 15 for brand new with the little twinair motor which I suspect would be great fun and sound cool.

Sounds pretty amazing for the price so long as a manual suits

It's the dual logic not manual. Suits me great , I like Changing gear but don't use clutches so that's perfect. It's got great safety stuff, connectivity, dynamic control, and even four wheels!

Really? The website really doesn't make that clear.

The manual is better anyway because it has a whole bunch more torque

How?

It's great to see the price has been adjusted in line with the Punto. It was crazy paying more for the Punto than the Panda. Funny thing is, (and I never would have guessed this before owning both) unless I was doing a LOT of very long distance open road running, I prefer the Panda.

It's just such a pleasure in traffic, parking etc and they have a little bit of small Fiat magic in them too.

I dunno why, presumably the duologic version is somewhat detuned in the interests of keeping the gearbox working

http://www.fiat.co.nz/images/pdf/Panda_Brochure_NZ_2015.pdf

Also the duologic is $2k more (but also gives some extra equipment)

Scroll right down to the bottom: http://www.fiat.co.nz/panda

Doesn't says it's manual, and dealers ads are more reliable that fiat it seems.,
I think they are puting twin air dual logic in easy and lounge trims on special, only. So that makes a manual cost more!

That's really interesting, I had never noticed that. It won't have anything at all to do with making the transmission last though. The reason being, assuming it's like all other dualogic box's it is EXACTLY the same transmission as the manual car, the "dualogic" is simply a bolt on robot that hooks up to the clutch and gear linkage instead of the pedals and shifter. They also use the same setup on the high torque diesels. In fact the transmissions with Dualogic actually seem to last longer because the computer doesn't let you do anything naughty. Our Panda has over 850'000 gear changes under it's belt and it's still on it's first clutch!

My guess at this stage is it may be an economy thing, given that's the economy engine (not as in cheap but as in efficient) and the dualogic tansmissions tend to give better economy. So it may be tuned to best exploit that, it's also a funny engine in terms of how it delivers torque. It may well be that it's torque pattern has been optimised to suit a slightly unusual but efficient shift map. This would be extra likely in my opinion given how the twin air works and it's new possibilities with valve timing etc.

Just guesses at this stage but I will look in to it further as I have time. It's very interesting and very good observation on your part. Will let you know if I find any interesting explanation. It's not something I have seen with other engines where dualogic is offered.

BTW. 0-100 times appear to be exactly the same despite the difference in output. This also lends itself to the optimisation theory.

AHA!
Found the answer for you, and it's actually in the link.
* Values refer to operation in eco mode.

That's why both are called 85hp, because they both can develop the same amount of power/torque (when not in eco mode). It's just that like all dualogics the Panda has an "eco mode" and in this case it seems to not only alter the shift points but also the engine valve timing/duration as well (at least that would be my assumption, and I think it's very likely given how that engine works).

Good spotting - is it only the duologic that does that?

Jazz, Whats "Twin air"?

No way, for 2 grand more you can have same thing brand spanking new. 17,000 k is worth more than 2 grand off.
This is what happens when importer drops price, people get stuck with overpriced used ones.m