I get your idea but. Does it seem that the point about all vehicles stopping (to help us right turners) may need to be clarified in the code to read : "AT THE LINE" as I can't see it written as such ?
loose.unit8,
Sep 11, 4:47am
The law seems to be that if you can see while stopped further back then you don't have to stop when you reach the head of the queue.
loose.unit8,
Sep 11, 4:51am
"At the line" is not written. All you have to do is stop where you can see if the intersection is clear
gman35,
Sep 11, 4:55am
That's the problem. It "seems" to read that way, but I certainly don't think it's right, courteous or safe, when there is oncoming turning traffic.
gman35,
Sep 11, 4:59am
So theoretically, at a "bare paddock full clear view country intersection" a whole line of cars could pull away one after the other (if they were all stationary at some point) ?
tintop,
Sep 11, 5:00am
The thing is variable - as I pointed out - a driver must stop in such a position that they can see that the way is clear.
If there are two cars stopped, the second one may be able to see that the road is clear and is therefor legally able to proceed.
However, if the second car is still travelling towards the stop, and has not yet come to a halt, then you have the right of way.
But as said by others - not everyone plays by the same interpretation of the rules - so a bit of discretion is needed.
It is probable that the second stopped driver will not be able to see that the way is clear from their position behind the first car, if so, someone has not done their site inspection properly, or there has been some sort of political interference. At a cross roads, or other intersection where it is necessary to provide a restriction on a road leading to the intersection - if there is 'X'm of visibility from a point 'Y'm back from the intersection, from a point 'Z' above the road surface, then the control should be a Give Way. I forget the X,Y, Z of it - but that's the principle.
The actual details will be in 'MOTSAM, ( Manual of Traffic Signs and Markings) or whatever has superseded it.
loose.unit8,
Sep 11, 5:01am
If they could each see the intersection adequately from where they did their compulsary stop, the letter of the law allows it, IMO
tintop,
Sep 11, 5:05am
See my edit above. The control almost certainly will be a 'Give Way'
The control on the intersection will be in response to a traffic problem, Being a Stop, or a Give Way will depend on the visibility at the intersection.
2sheddies,
Sep 11, 5:05am
I agree it needs to be more clear. I can pretty much say with certainty though, if you were doing a driving test and you failed to come to a complete stop when it's your turn to go, you'd be knocked back. If you coasted through after being two or three cars back and seeing the way was clear as we mentioned earlier, they'd be marking against you. I imagine they know the laws better than most.
gman35,
Sep 11, 5:18am
Hmmm, so it appears we are all still stuck at the "opinion" and "seems" intersection re the actual STOPPING rule in regards to where or how long ago. Can't believe it does not clearly say that everyone must stop at least at the line (give or take up to a metre back) before they progress.
tintop,
Sep 11, 5:22am
My recollection of the traffic regs was that the driver must stop in such a position that they can see that the way is clear before proceeding.
That's exactly it. Had this discussion with a cop at the Waiouru Military Camp in 1969, and that was the conclusion.
But in practice, Stop signs are usually placed where visibility is poor.
If you've sat by a Stop sign and watched the number that don't stop, you wouldn't consider shooting the gap.
dublo,
Sep 11, 8:05am
And just to add to the confusion, there is a junction in Rotorua (Victoria St and Amohia St extension which becomes Ruihi St when it crosses Victoria) where Victoria St has the right of way. One of the cross streets (Amohia) has a Give Way sign, but on the opposite side (Ruihi) there is a Stop sign. In theory, I believe, a vehicle waiting at the Ruihi stop sign to go straight ahead has to wait for a vehicle turning right out of Amohia across its bow. I frequently use this junction but I have yet to see that happen!
bbboo,
Sep 19, 12:03am
To help clear this up I received a ticket for not coming to a complete stop at a stop sign. I was stopped behind one car, clear view, when he went so did I only to be stopped by the police and ticketed. So it depends if you feel lucky or have some extra dollars to donate to the Policemans Ball.
tintop,
Sep 19, 12:32am
That is something that you could have contested.
If you had stopped in a position where you could see the road was clear in both directions, and visibility was still clear as you moved from your stopped position up to the yellow line, ( ie - no bushes, poles, etc even momentarily obscuring the view in either direction, it would have been worth a go. )
gman35,
Sep 19, 1:11am
Thanks for revisting this thread, But again, that clears nothing up at all.
kecal,
Sep 20, 9:43pm
dont two things make it abundantly clear 1 your doing a right hand turn 2 your at a stop sign
melonhead1,
Sep 20, 9:50pm
Yes, pretty much. Along with Gaol time for not stopping. Throwing people in prison for a week or so is what its going to take to get people to actually stop. Its out of control.
purplegoat,
Sep 20, 10:45pm
You are incorrect in stating that a vehicle must stop AGAIN . the land transport rule 2004 ( which is legislation that the road code is based on ) states QUOTE Giving way where vehicles are controlled by stop sign or give-way sign (1)A driver approaching or entering an intersection on a roadway where the vehicles that are moving in the direction in which that driver is travelling are controlled by a stop sign at or near the intersection must??
patiki1,
Sep 21, 12:05am
Find another route.We have heaps of roads like that in Auckland and in peak traffic its very hard to get out.
pestri,
Sep 21, 12:07am
The rules, as I recall reading them a few years back require you to stop in such a position that you can see whether the road is clear for you to proceed. AFAIK you need only do this once, not every few meters.
tintop,
Sep 21, 12:47am
That is pretty much correct, however if there is a visibility obstruction as you travel from that point and proceed without stopping again, you are on shaky ground.
And from a intersection control point of view, if the visibility is clear from a point ( by memory, 9m back from the limit line) the control should normally be a 'Give Way'
lookoutas,
Sep 21, 7:27am
As I mentioned previously - It's an education to watch a stop sign for a period of time. You will find that it could be as high as 8 out of 10 don't actually stop.
bashfulbro,
May 22, 3:22am
Yes, that would be about right, i think it`s just a Kiwi attitude thing. I have driven extensively in USA, particularly, in Texas, where Stop signs control most intersections where there are not lights. 4 way Stop signs are at most large intersections. In all the times there, i have never seen one driver, run a Stop sign, they come to the intersection, Stop, and take their turn, then move off.If you arrive and stop before me, you go before me. Courtesy?. or the huge fines ?, i don`t know. NZ has suffered, since the demise of the MOT, from absolutely, no , driver training, you tick most of the right boxes in ridiculously simple, multi answer questionnaires. bingo, you're let loose on the roads, most young ones,have learned, not how to drive, but how to be aggressive half witted steerers, by growing up in the back seat,watching how their equally ill-trained parents, speed, run lights and Stop signs etc., while complaining about the young fools on the roads.
Since the public registrations are closed, you must have an invite from a current member to be able to register and post in this thread.
Have an account? Login here.