Question, how often do coppers get it wrong when they give out speeding tickets? Last thursday in my truck I got a ticket for doing 104kph now the truck is speed limited to 90kph and according to the gps on phones its only 88kph, the speed limiter is only passive in that it backs off the throttle and doesn't apply any braking so it can exceed 90 on a hill. I was on maybe a slight down hill but pretty flat piece of road, our trucks are fitted with ERoad and we use digital log books I've had one of our compliance managers check the Eroad logs of my truck and the fasted speed it had recorded in the previous month was 100kph a couple of weeks prior to another driver. It was foggy and the copper was stationary and as far as I could see I was the only vehicle near by, he said that he flicked the rader off and on a couple of times and each time it was flicking between 104 and 105, I'm sure I wasn't and that even if I wasn't paying attention the truck wouldn't have been able to be doing that speed anyway.
Kinded miffed, have got a clean licence and was pretty keen on keeping it that way, any ideas?
So deny liability, let them take you to court then present your eroad log for that day as evidence
hamishcookie,
Aug 9, 7:30am
Yeah that's the plan well Ill write away and send them a copy of the log for the day to start with and see what they say, just pissed though because if we didn't have the Eroad logs I would just have to wear it.
saxman99,
Aug 9, 8:39am
No, don't do that, simply ask for a defended hearing. Do not tell them anything. If you give away your defense they can prepare their case against you. You should also ask for full disclosure of their case against you which they must provide. This enables you to see what evidence they have, whether or not the speed measuring equipment was calibrated, what notes the officer might have made etc.
Then you show up to court, let them have their say, then show the judge your proof that it's all bollocks and get the case dismissed. Then ask the JPs for costs.
Best of luck.
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 9, 8:50am
THIS! Also, conveniently the Cops have decided not to accept GPS evidence, that doesn't apply to the courts though. So you may as well go straight there.
fungles,
Aug 9, 10:46am
You cant get costs over traffic offences, tried that one. and right about not giving away your defence. just ask for a defended hearing.
hamishcookie,
Aug 9, 3:51pm
Can you just represent yourself or do you need to coff up for a lawyer?
saxman99,
Aug 9, 4:50pm
Yes you can represent yourself but you need to be very sure that you know what you are doing, and that you are able to confidently and succinctly speak to your case and deport yourself correctly in court. What many people do is get some proper legal advice before going in. There should be a duty solicitor at court who can help and they can represent you if you wish. Be careful of this, the last joker I came across was woeful, the cop even gave the guy an opening to have the case withdrawn against a poor young woman who had obviously been stitched up and he missed it.
desmodave,
Aug 9, 5:05pm
Represent yourself . No money to be made for Lawyer and the legal system that way , and no doubt some what quicker to reach a decision .
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 9, 6:07pm
I wonder if you could take a separate civil case against the cop for costs if he is proven to be lying. It angers me that there is no consequences for them "trying it on", we desperately need to weed the dishonest out of our Police force.
It's also time that there was some sort of tamper proof log or video on speed measuring equipment. It's sad it's come to this though and really we need to just weed out the psychopaths and liers.
the-lada-dude,
Aug 9, 6:11pm
This a 1000 times. well said saxman, . I,m pretty good at figuring out a defence strategy, but i'm slow on the up take, which is what you don't want in court . you need a friend or a person that's as sharp as a pin to speak on your behalf . as saxman says, having the police file allows you to formulate an answer to every angle they may come at you. and I suspect they will for the fact that you appear clever enough to ask for the file in the 1st place, . then again being the gutless bastards they are sometimes, a quick review and they'll simply drop this action against you
bumfacingdown,
Aug 9, 6:31pm
Not often I would agree with you jaz, but in this case I sorta do. Rather than a civil case there should be real costs awarded when the not guilty gets handed out, not mater it be for traffic or High Court offense.
kazbanz,
Aug 9, 7:01pm
Hamish. One thing I definitely would be asking the police for is the certificate of calibration of the radar gun involved. The case won't be in front of a jury.it will be a Judge and the prosecuting officer in there against you. The decision the judge has to make is whose evidence he believes. So reducing the credibility of the police evidence by the gun having an Out of date cert will definitely help.
snoopy221,
Aug 9, 7:06pm
Yeah well ya juss KNOW he was tryin it on and irrespective of the fact that you have evidence to prove he is clearly at fault. He not only has to provide the calibration certificate and show you the reading and the Big Kicker here is he actually has to have a certificate stating he is a ! fit and proper authorized person to use the radar! -Most of em donna have dat
esky-tastic,
Aug 9, 9:08pm
Don’t forget you have to go to the Court in the area the alleged offence took place. Hopefully it’s not 300km from where you live!
But police are never wrong & courts back them 100% .
gedo1,
Aug 9, 11:06pm
Be careful what you submit as evidence in court. In your post you tell that the truck has a speed limiting device which apparently has GPS actual speed of 88km/hr. You state that becuae it does not apply any braking so the truck may actually reach 90km/hr. You indicate that the road was on a maybe slight down hill but mainly flat road etc. Your compliance manager showed how the highest speed recorded was by another driver who shows as having reached 100km/hr. An astute prosecutor, upon hearing that, is likely to ask - just out of interest - what load you were carrying at the time. Probably followed by noting that if a truck, using that non-braking limiter, can reach 100km/hr could just as easily reach a few km/hr more. i.e.104km/hr. Then relating a possibly heavier load affecting the downhill speed of the truck. you see what I'm getting at?. Best of luck
gedo1,
Aug 9, 11:26pm
It could come down to the court deciding between the evidence presented by you - the Eroad readings which appear to show no speed during your usage of the truck - and the evidence of a cop using a certified and currently calibrated speed detection device. If you do go to court the Pollice are obliged to provide you in disclosure with a copy of the calibration for the device used and other information relating to the training and current status of the user,
flack88,
Aug 9, 11:42pm
Take it to court don't bother with a lawyer most of them are in with the cops,say you taking it to court and they may just rollover,dont disclose anything to them,you will get a call from them and then tell him what your proposal is.104 quite a good overspeed you would have to be on a considerable gradient to get that,at what weight 45tonne or something,or truck only?
snoopy221,
Aug 9, 11:49pm
First stage of process is generally a hearing before a coupla Justices of the peace. And yip ya can fire a disclosure request on the police prosecutor either in person on a court day or via the court registrar at the court it will be heard in. Turning up on the day with the last what 20 or 30,000 kilometers of the E road data in paper format and ya log books showing you were NOT the driver when the 100 k was exceeded and your clean license record 2 copies one for the prosecutor and one for the Judge and as above any effects of fog etc and documented evidence of how it can affect radar and with a possible doubt being established there and then a call direct to the prosecutor about radar calibration and whether the person named on the offence was the holder of a certificate of use on the day the ticket was issued may well have a prosecutor use the possibility of doubt and allow an acquittal on the day as stated most plods do NOT have the required paperwork.
And if ya winning then that is the time to say well i have had (x) expenses day off work etc. Or prepare for round 2 in court with a Judge
hamishcookie,
Aug 10, 5:56am
Was empty at the time so 24-25 tonne went though the same spot today in the same state empty bins truck and trailer and kept foot on the floor so solely on the limiter and it held it at 90 so no way is the ticket correct. Its only $80 the demerits and the princable are the issues here, pretty pissed that I'm gonna have to dick around so much over a mistake
headcat,
Aug 10, 6:37am
They rely on that
snoopy221,
Aug 10, 6:40am
RE#22 and #23
Turning up on the day with the last what 20 or 30,000 kilometers of the E road data in paper format and ya log books showing you were NOT the driver when the 100 k was exceeded and your clean license record 2 copies one for the prosecutor and one for the Judge and as above any effects of fog etc and documented evidence of how it can affect radar and with a possible doubt being established
Was empty at the time so 24-25 tonne went though the same spot today in the same state empty bins truck and trailer and kept foot on the floor so solely on the limiter and it held it at 90
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