Dirty Diesels and the NZ PR campaign Page 2 / 3

apollo11, Dec 6, 10:30pm
Apparently they are aiming to be making 20 million cars per year by 2030, but who bloody knows what the world will be like before then. The world is a vastly more complicated place than it was at the time Model T's were rolling off the line.

tygertung, Dec 7, 6:58am
Model T ford was designed to be the most simple possible car so that they could be easily and cheaply produced.

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 8:10am
Musk has been quoted that he thinks tesla will be able to do 1 million a year. But his past lies prove hes completely unreliable, but even if you ignore that, his best target will still fail to impress. And certainly wont meet global demand for EV's.

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 8:12am
remind me again when the new roadster was first supposed to be available?

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 8:30am
Cool well the tesla company just surpassed toyota in share value. So lets compare Toyota to Tesla. Toyota make over 10 million cars a year, and have done for at least the last 10 years. SO thats 100 cars for every 1 EV tesla have made, and tesla is now worth more.

apollo11, Dec 7, 8:49am
That's because Tesla's output curve is close to exponential. https://cleantechnica.com/2020/10/02/tesla-delivers-record-139300-vehicles-in-3rd-quarter-new-graphs-chart/
Investors are valuing the company by it's potential for future growth, and with more and more countries mandating a switch to purely ev's by 2040 why would anyone invest in a new fossil car plant?

absolute_detail, Dec 7, 9:10am
Try $30k+ for a patrol/land cruiser/defender, a lot are modified with bigger turbos and not very good tuning with peole thinking lots of black smoke is good. They can easily be cleaned up by dialing back the amount of fuel the pump is delivering but good luck getting people out of those when there is no alternative and they are only going to go up in value

s_nz, Dec 7, 9:42am
I was announced in 2017. Not sure when it was first supposed to be available, but Wikipedia has this "Tesla CEO Elon Musk has said that Roadster sales will begin after the release of the revised Model S 'Plaid', which should enter production in late 2021".

It was always going to be a very high priced (a 0-97km/h time of 1.9 seconds justifies this), and hence relatively low volume offering, but my understanding is is is basically a tweaked and re-skinned model S, so amount of R&D required should be less than for a all new vehicle.

harm_less, Dec 7, 10:54am
It has always been Musk's intention to stimulate the manufacture and uptake of EVs by all carmakers in a save the world philosophical way. https://waitbutwhy.com/2017/03/elon-musk-post-series.html
In this regard the moves by almost all major carmakers, and a wave of start-up EV only marques, together with anti-ICE legislation by many countries would seem to indicate Musk has been successful in this regard.

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 12:41pm
oh so he gets credit for all the work others were doing ? lol hes a grifter, and your a sucker if you believe that.

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 12:50pm
https://www.carbuyer.co.uk/news/161273/all-new-tesla-roadster-for-2020 Another year delayed. Oh its going to have co2 thrusters, guess you can throw away the zero carbon emission label now. https://www.carmagazine.co.uk/car-news/first-official-pictures/tesla/roadster-ev/

harm_less, Dec 7, 1:08pm
So what you're saying is that numerous automakers would be investing into EV production if they didn't have Tesla setting a very lucrative lead? The incumbent wouldn't be compromising their existing market base if they didn't see EVs (and primarily Tesla) as a very real looming threat.

s_nz, Dec 7, 1:20pm
I guess the post you were responding to was refereing to the likes of Martin Eberhard and Marc Tarpenning, along with New Zealander Ian Wright. All were involved in Tesla before Musk.

apollo11, Dec 7, 1:58pm
I would guess that Musk had the money, so he got the reins. It's pointless arguing over who deserves accolades, because any enterprise is a group effort right down to the bloke who cleans the loos. But you could say that Musk was certainly the motivating force behind the rise of Tesla.

gazzat22, Dec 7, 2:02pm
The times I,ve spent in the UK( many months in total) i never saw diesels emit the exhaust fumes that a lot still do in NZ even though the Sulphur content has" supposedly" been reduced here.!

harm_less, Dec 7, 3:20pm
The WaitButWhy blog I linked to provides a very in-depth insight into where Musk's philosophies lie in regard to Tesla's intentions.

tygertung, Dec 7, 4:47pm
I think the emissions still cause issues, even if they have complete combustion.

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 5:49pm
The first Prius was released in 1997, so the entire auto industry was already exploring battery technology to drive cars a decade before tesla was founded, which was also before Musk bought shares in it. Theres also plenty of Nissan leafs, in NZ from 2010-onwards.

harm_less, Dec 7, 6:15pm
Tesla provided much needed critical mass to EV development and market. Sure Nissan and Toyota were dabbling with EV technologies but Tesla quickly became the 'poster boy' of EVs and gave all manufacturers a hurry-up as a result.

FYI Nissan introduced the Leaf to Japan and the US at the end of 2010. NZ didn't see any real number of them until 2014 when 2nd hand Jap imports started arriving following Nissan NZ's very poor marketing attempt of new ones.

s_nz, Dec 7, 7:26pm
While Toyota hybrids were / are groundbreaking tech, don't think they can be credited Pure electric cars heading towards being mainstream. They have been quite slow in that area.

Tesla delivered the first roadster in Feb 2008, and my understanding is that their presence was a key driving factor to encourage Nissan to release the leaf, and General motors to release the Volt.

First leaf's (leaves?) arrived in NZ in 2011, but were slow to sell due to their high (cira $70k) pricetag. Nissan NZ was still selling their first shipment in 2013. In mid to late 2013 Nissan NZ brought anouther batch of cars that nissan aussie was unable to sell (I assume for a big discount). These 2011 built cars were sold for $40k as 2013 & 2014 model years. By 2013 / 2014 we were starting to get a decent flow of nissan leaf's from japan.

Bit harsh of accuse Nissan NZ of poor marketing. The car was just really expensive. Once used cars (that had collected a cira $10,000 subsidy in japan or the UK) started turning up, far better value could be had in the used market.

bitsnpieces2020, Dec 7, 8:30pm
Nissans car is about $10k cheaper than the cheapest tesla, Teslas were, and are luxury toys for the rich.

intrade, Dec 9, 10:24am
ok some of you will be interested some wont give a rats ass.
I had a call from my mother and while we where talking She tells me you are the only one who knows this. We got a new car its a Tucan. i said thats a two-son . its a 1 year old Diesel . i said you better drive that 50km once a week to clear the dpf and or minimum 1 time a month. or you will have expensive problems.
Interesting fact of this is The nz media dead against Diesel and here is my mother who got a diesel in a country where you are a murderer when you drive a diesel according to The NZ media?
that tells you it dont adds up huh.

serf407, Dec 9, 1:28pm
A horse produces 20 kilograms of methane per year.

harm_less, Dec 9, 2:48pm
So a lot less than the 70-120kg/year that cows produce. https://phys.org/news/2019-07-potential-methane-cows.html

cjohnw, Dec 9, 3:58pm
A man of few words . . .
unlike some.

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