Charging EVs versus NZs net electricity generation
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keytag,
Jun 25, 6:00am
After further research this is an updated calculation of the amount of electricity needed if/when all of NZ’s light vehicles are EV’s.
The total kilometres travelled by light vehicles in New Zealand in 2019 = 45 billion kilometres This is for all light petrol and diesel cars, utes, vans etc, but excludes heavy trucks and buses etc https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/road-transport/sheet/vehicle-kms-travelled-vkt Teslas are rated between 15-25 kWh /100km it just depends on your driving style, if you use city or highway driving or combined, and if you use the American EPA, or European formula. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_car_EPA_fuel_economy A figure of 20kWh/100km is good and we should add 10% for charging losses etc, so 22 kWh/100km If a Tesla uses 22kWh/100km that is 2,200 GWh for 10 billion kms 9,900 GWh for 45 billion kms
So for every light vehicle to be replaced by an EV and travel the combined distance of 45 billion kms equals an increase of 22% of our current electricity production.
If it takes 20 years to phase out ICE’s and replace with EV’s then for the next 20 years we need a 1% year on year increase in electricity production.
AN interesting quandary given that we are currently burning more coal than ever to keep up with demand.
keytag,
Jun 25, 6:07am
Closing Tiwai in 2024 will free up 5,300GWh, but the region will loose 1,000 direct jobs and 1,600 supporting jobs, and affect a large number of families. Plus there would be a reasonable cost upgrade to ship the extra power up north.
marte,
Jun 25, 6:28am
How much electricity would closing Glenbrook steel free up? Its closer to its destination, so there wouldn't have to be the huge wasted investment in a extra NZ long HV transmission upgrade. And the manufacture of the Steel, Copper & Aluminium for it. Or the line losses.
Aluminium's lighter than steel & using it in vehicles ultimately means less fuel used, so, less CO2 output. It gets recycled too because of its inherent value.
Maybe, how about just build another Hydropower station, or 3 & create jobs instead of cannibalizing our economy.
framtech,
Jun 25, 7:00am
you have left a few items out of the mix, upgrading transmission of the power to households, the upgrading of household wiring and switchboards, the increase in population and the increase of other electrical devices over that same time period, the pollution created by battery construction and the pollution from used batteries, the fact that the greenies and forest and bird (brains) won't let anyone construct any new hydro or dam any land, windmills for electrical generation have a short life span compared to hydro, the greenies are against steam for generation. The main point is that no matter what happens, this country is anti productivity, anti business, anti european and thinks you can get something for nothing - it's all over rover and Labour and the greens did it.
tygertung,
Jun 25, 7:42am
Existing switchboards in houses have plenty of capacity for charging.
marte,
Jun 25, 7:50am
It seems then, it would make a lot more sense for our Government to provide a incentive, or tax rebate or such, so that businesses, landlords & tax payers would fit solar panels to their roofs. This would them utilise the existing grid to generate clean green solar power directly at useage point, thereby negating building a new clean green hydropower station, and providing jobs to Kiwis.
While also providing a incentive for people to buy EV cars because they get bugger all for the power anyway
framtech,
Jun 25, 7:54am
The book that needs reading, " Unsettled by Steven. Koonin.
framtech,
Jun 25, 8:00am
But you may find when you call an electrician and ask to install a nice Level Two charging station with a 50 amp circuit that they present a very expensive estimate — perhaps $5,000 or more — because you will need to upgrade the electric service into your home. Older homes often have only 100 amps of service, and electrical codes don’t let you exceed a given quota of devices and loads on them. Without going into the full formula, if you get 80 amps worth of 240v devices on a 100A panel you probably go over the limit. If you have things like a 30 amp dryer, a 30 amp electric oven, or an air conditioner or pool pump or other such device, you can easily go over the limit. Your electrician will tell you that you need to bring in new service from the power company (typically 200 amps) as well as whole new power panel. On top of that, they will need to run a line capable of 40 to 50 amps to your parking spot, and install a 50 amp plug (cheap) or hardwired wall EVSE (”charger”).
joanie32,
Jun 25, 5:25pm
Three, sometimes four cars will need to be charged at my house each night.
Is that not going to be an issue?
kateley,
Jun 25, 6:39pm
I bet no one has thought about that!
3tomany,
Jun 25, 6:59pm
I have that same problem 4 cars in our house and three of them travel and average of 100km per day with 3-400k trips a weekly basis for two of them. I will need an EV quad also and maybe an EV tractor though the Tractor may have to be charged at the cowshed.
franc123,
Jun 25, 7:03pm
No because once GPS tracking becomes compulsory, you won't be allowed that many vehicles at one residential property at once. It should NEVER be underestimated how much control the Green party wants over your everyday life
gblack,
Jun 25, 7:25pm
Few things to consider.
20 years is pretty ambitious. Not saying its impossible but even in the currently unlikely scenario of 100% of all new vehicles being EV, would still take much longer. So pretty unlikely scenario.
Then over the next 20+ years you assume that all EVs will have no improvement in efficiency over a current gen mid sized car. We also don't know in a changing world with more people shopping and working from home if average vehicle kilometres will change.
But overall not too bad an increase in load. Currently consented generation projects along with increasing numbers of PV installation will cope.
The massive difference in NZ economy in an EV dominated world will be all that energy will be generated in NZ. Currently hundreds of millions of dollars leave the country ever year to wealthy oil producing companies and huge multi nationals like ExxonMobil, Shell and BP etc. That same money buys a lot of generation
alowishes,
Jun 25, 7:47pm
“Buys a lot of generation”
WHAT is going to do this generation of power that will be approved by Greenies etc.
kenw1,
Jun 25, 7:58pm
5k is well short of the figure, if you have an older type swbd that may well need replacing for a start 2-3k a new line in think our last one was about 6 or 7k for a fairly short run, be safe count on 12k minimum.
kenw1,
Jun 25, 7:59pm
Anyone got an accurate figure for the charging conversion loss, think its a lot higher than 10%.
So just when we need energy to keep warm guess what.
Staffers charging at home using a typical 120-volt wall outlet saw efficiency of, at best, 85 percent, and it dropped to as little as 60 percent in very cold weather, when charging the battery requires expending significant energy to keep it warm.
. Unlike conventionally fueled vehicles, electric vehicles experience a loss of energy during “refueling,” with an energy loss of about 16% from the wall power to the battery during charging.
kenw1,
Jun 25, 8:05pm
How many Kwh are in a litre of 91, anyone know?
found the answer
One litre of gasoline contains the energy equivalent to 8.9 kWh of electricity.24/03/2021
tygertung,
Jun 25, 9:00pm
You can't get 120v wall outlets in NZ. We have 230v which when rectified to DC could be 330V
remmers,
Jun 25, 9:13pm
I have not checked his maths and it is US / Norway but very interesting re if all cars in US were EV. https://youtu.be/7dfyG6FXsUU
kenw1,
Jun 26, 3:42am
Well, actually if you take 230v AC and do a straight rectification you will only get a maximum of 325v DC with no load times 1.414 to obtain the peak voltage., if you wish to raise the average level of the DC you will require a large capacitive filter. Now to produce a few kw of DC, is this going to be pure DC or DC with a large ripple voltage on it? you will need a massive bank of capacitors. So if you are lucky on load you may obtain 1.3 V AC input.
The point is more in the inefficiency of charging batteries.
tygertung,
Jun 26, 3:58am
I suppose for charging batteries they won't mind if there is a bit of a ripple, however I doubt the chargers are using simple bridge rectifier capacitor smoothing for their circuits.
sr2,
Jun 26, 4:24am
If it's anything like modern electric forkhoists the they'll be using smart chopper power supply's.
bill1451,
Jun 26, 4:25am
Not quite correct unless you are using all that gear all night when surely if your power authority can put you on a night rate, Sorry a lot of misinformation on these forums about 200amp power supplys, bordering on hysteria.
bill1451,
Jun 26, 4:28am
Anyway if everyone on the street had to upgrade their supply to 200amps the power authority I would warrant just wouldn,t be able to supply that sort of current. Normal single phase supply is 16mm at 60amps and if properly managed should be more than adequate if your EV charger is on "night rate"
bill1451,
Jun 26, 4:36am
Plenty of hysteria on this forum, the charging system on EV,s typically limits the amount of current the battery will take and if the "socket" outlet is on night rate then this starts after all your high amp appliances, cookers,, spa pools, are not being used.
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