Oh & the hardening bit only really works with full red & total immersion, but then again, you would have already known that
h.e,
Apr 13, 8:05pm
mrfxit wrote:
Heat it a pale red (the whole area thats bent) Belt it straight again & cool it slowly with a bit of waste oil. not really wanting to argue with you but thats your suggestion there.thats hardening.book smart you'd be right did study it for trade cert with another 20 odd years to back it up.you dont heat springs you leave it to the blacksmiths they fully understand the effects of heating high grade steels .
mrfxit,
Apr 13, 8:11pm
BIT of waste oil, NOT a bucket. "you dont heat springs you leave it to the blacksmiths" Now you have me confused, blacksmiths HEAT springs & then (in an ideal situation) while hot, roll them to the desired shape. Pretty sure they use a certain amount of oil as well to seal the steel surface.
h.e,
Apr 13, 8:32pm
if your going to quote me use the whole sentence i said they fully understand the effects of heating high grade steels or something tothat effect.they heat the whole leaf in a furnace,not one spot and beat the sh*t out of it like some cowboy
skin1235,
Apr 13, 8:42pm
so spring with the info of those 24 yrs, where is the issue, used to have truck and trailer springs repair/reset at auld and voss in PN many years ago, often while I waited the final cooling was definitely standard practice, more than once I'd return to Dannevirke with a hot spring set of leaves in a box of lime dust, fit them back together as a spring and fit it to a trailer at 4.am so that trailer could be collecting milk at 6am, what I'm not sure of was the quenching, they were definitely quenched in oil at some stage of a reset or perhaps that was when shaping a new leaf to fit an existing pack - been a few years now, certainly more yrs back than your more recent 24
skin1235,
Apr 13, 8:49pm
oh common, I think both dave and I know a little more is required than firing up the gas axe and using a 16lb hammer, although you could be excused for thinking so no furnace here but have a dam good forge - remember them, blacksmiths use them, or used to
unideck,
Apr 14, 9:18am
Peeves me off when everybody is trying to help then low and behold we have the"if you dont no what this is dont heat it at all" & "im a boilermaker with 24 yrs experience and there is no way in hell i'd heat a spring" Jesus H, hes asking for help from people that know.
Steve, if you get stuck I have a pair of good 1750 kg s/h springs here, they have a center bolt too that allows you to add or remove the leafs as in up-rate or De-rate them. Think they are 7 leafs so you could just use the eyelet part to both sides. Just arrange the freight and they are yours for free OK ;)
mrfxit,
Apr 14, 2:52pm
Didn't have a problem with the WHOLE quote, just the relevant bit. This particular job should be a pretty straight forward bit of heating & resetting ONLY the main leaf. If he wants to do a TOTAL pro job, then maybe a full set of 4 springs should be done to balance it all correctly, but then again If that was the case, then it would be a total rebuild of a better design. Yes you probably do know a lot more about it then anyone else here BUT, . jumping up & down screaming DON'T DO IT . also needs quantifying to be taken seriously. A few comments about how it CAN be done "backyard style" could have been a lot more help then most of your other comments.
h.e,
Apr 14, 4:06pm
years ago it was common to lower your car by running the gas over the springs of a car it was illegal then still is now i wonder why.down here where things are done properly i would have sent the top leaf into brown and cope they are spring manufactures on monday,got it back tuesday.the op would have his couple of metres of wood on the trailer and probably stacked by now.all for under a hundred and done properly.on a side note that info is in post 6
h.e,
Apr 14, 5:15pm
bouncing around on the back of the truck in a bag of lime was part of the heat treatment.well prehaps not the bouncing it can be done with sand,fireproof blanket or in the furnace its to slow the cooling process,its called annealling(sp) so i guess they didnt just heat it up and beat the snot out of it either.
skin1235,
Apr 14, 6:00pm
I'll get back to you on that offer unideck, have a brother in ohaupo intending to come down this way next weekend, I will be up at his place the weekend after easter, I'm sure we can get something arranged
skin1235,
Apr 14, 6:10pm
way back in post 17 "Am one of those fix it meself if possible types - considering as dave suggested pop the top leaf off and heat until she can be pushed back into shape"
no beat the snot out if it mentioned
wondered how long before you used the correct tern- annealing, rather than normalising, and if I know what annealing is and why it is done. and how to do it, why are you assuming I'm a cowboy about to beat the snot out of a puny 40mm spring leaf
the forge takes about an hour to heat up, the bag of lime dust awaits, and I don't pay anyone 100 bucks for something I can do myself, and enjoy doing my questions to uni and comments to dave were to gauge for any warning issues and any more up to date methods, my methods are at least 40 yrs old, they may have been superceded, appears not, if either had come back and said don't bother they snap like carrots after they've been bent once I'd have known to look for another eye leaf to suit
h.e,
Apr 14, 6:38pm
i said i suggest its normalised after straightening not it is after reading your other post where its cooled in lime i realised i was wrong and its annealled.hope you get it right cause with that set up and it snaps your front axle is going out the back,while others had a go at me i did notice one has repeatedly suggested new springs even offering free ones have a think about that, perhaps he is a bit politer than me
mrfxit,
Apr 14, 6:55pm
Stephen (skin1235) has suggested swapping the repaired spring for the back set, which of course is a good idea.
It's like this . It's an OLD trailer that in the ideal world "should" be either redesigned or scrapped. It's not being used commercially, so therefor reasonable to expect that it's not being used very often.
On top of this, it's a simple repair & if done properly, will last as long as the rest of the traile, along with the above, not really worth spending a large amount of cash on.
Note: "it's a simple repair" = Now who can honestly deny that statement after seeing the photo's
"If done properly," = hasn't really got anything to do with doing it "professionally " or throwing lots of cash at it.
"KISS"
h.e,
Apr 14, 7:08pm
op posts havent installed much confidence fromthe start they have had, can i heat ,i seem to recall,what do you think,the last thing i want is a brittle spring,not sure of the quenching,quenched in oil at some stage,been a few years now certainly more than 24,but now its my methods are more than 40 years old,glad he lives over the other side of the strait aye
mrfxit,
Apr 14, 7:16pm
Stephen, Did your "mate" ever tell you how it happened. To me it looks like he clipped the axle
skin1235,
Apr 14, 7:23pm
ease it up, there is no big issue here, I am perfectly aware of any potential it may have and have alluded to them a couple of times, and also to reconfiguring the setup to alleviate them when I get the offending leaf off and get some heat into it I will be able to see if it is damaged, ie cracked, granulated, unusual in any way in that region or for that matter anywhere in the leaf, and if so will not be putting it back into service If on the other hand it appears to be in good nick it will be reformed to shape, annealed and fitted to a trailing axle, one of the current trailing ones will be brought up into the forward position complete, I may have to take up the offer of a pair if there is internal damage shown in heating - and yes I do know what to look for Back when I got my ticket mechanics were not parts fitters, they actually were taught how to make components, often better than original parts Some things are beyond our control, scoring a tandem for free complete with 4 covered pen crate on it is fine, the suspension system it uses maybe not so fine, but it will suffice and it will be safe and certainly not offer a danger to anyone or anything on the road
or I could have smacked it back down cold, gone off out the bush and loaded 2 1/2 ton on it and dragged it back a speed, it either would have bent back into shape or snapped
cheers all of you, the comments have been appreciated, even your h.e., murphys law says it will fall apart in the forge
Dave, that engine a couple of weeks back - grabbed a torch while up the gully last night, found a few numbers that may help 10-4-!(641), bit dark and hard to see the last group
skin1235,
Apr 14, 7:26pm
according to humber engine numbers, no prefix denotes pre '50 but cant id the 10-4 bit
skin1235,
Apr 14, 7:31pm
none of which makes sense, will be within a few kms of it tomorrow during dayligh, may have to take a bit of emery and have a scratch around, suspect there should be an A or a B infront of that making it a 49 -51 hillman minx or a 59-61 super minx deluxe
skin1235,
Apr 14, 7:39pm
hard enough to leave a bruise on the bottom of the axle, it has increased the tow out by a couple of mm and the camber is now negative, that will be repaired while the axle is down he claims 'wasn't him'
not a lot of good coming on here asking for comment and advise if I leap in with concise certainties h.e., you take great joy in pointing out your superiority and inadequacies of others, have you considered how that displays you though edit - and last time I got out the fingers and toes 40 yrs was a few more than 24, did I ever claim different, so why try to denigrate with that
mrfxit,
Apr 14, 8:14pm
Mmmm yea suspected as much from the photo. Probably bowed the axle slightly but easy enough to bow it back enough to sort it out & still be safe, hopefully not effected the stub/s. Hows the shackles on the other side, would suspect they could be a bit loose now. Just as well it wasn't the back axle or the impact could have ripped it right out.
mrfxit,
Apr 14, 8:22pm
Later rather then early. But then again, if it was a private import & not a franchise dealer, anythings possible. Still picking 54/56=ish By 59/61-ish, they had a totally different air filter system because that is the beginnings of the series 3 saloons
skin1235,
Apr 14, 8:23pm
stubs and bearings okay, portapower will tweak her back to straight again, not a lot of room to increase the strengthening webs, they occupy all the space available already but will let that side go and weld them after straightening again, other sides good, quite a bit of slop in the suspension by now, another of those what are they quizzes, think the front hubs are dodge, late '40's to mid 50's, have hydraulic and cable cranked handbrake system, still operates but no cable currently fitted to back of towbar coupling, cannot find any evidence it has ever had the hydraulic system used on the trailer
the bruises are more like he's run over an engine block than a lump of concrete, very clean edges, but not uniform lines though, never thought to look at the back axle, maybe he bounced it under both, no obvious damage to alignment on the back but will check later
skin1235,
Apr 14, 8:28pm
has got stepped axles, from hub step down, under spring, then step back up to deck minus 4", beam to other side then repeat, whole thing sist very low, which is good, but has good clearance too, can take some fairly rugged tracks without belly-ing, sits good behind the 'lux even when fully loaded, and by that I mean near 3 cube of green manuka, ie 2.5 tonne
mrfxit,
Apr 14, 8:35pm
With a bit of luck, the trailer bounced OVER the lump of whatever. Are you going to send him a 'bill" (joe/bruno/ somebody of cold war Russian decent)or simply never speak to him again ;-)
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