Glad to see you have had a great run. Your post points somthing out which you likely didn't intend. Those Diesel Surf's are actually notorious for expensive head problems etc yet you have had a good run.
I think you miss the idea with the XC70 though, its cars with very high initial depreciation that are often the best buys secondhand. Just like my Multipla, HUGE initial depreciation on that yet for the 5 years or so I have owned it there has been very little at all (we are talking under $1000 a year). Assuming depreciation is linear is a big trap that many fall into.
The other trap I think is relying too much on anecdotal evidence (like the XC70 you saw with the serious work having been done.
Incidentally I have recently repaired a very new highlander, but I still consider them as reliable as before I did the repair, simply because the sample was too small.
BTW, if you are talking specific examples and buying new then your point is excellent. Don't buy anything like the XC70 new, buy the Toyota product, thats when the resale on the Toyota actually works for you, at least as long as these market conditions exist.
Also, you are doing exactly the right thing considering all aspects of running i.e considering depreciation, repairs etc which so many people don't consider. Just make sure you do accurate math, although your decision may have been right if you bought the Toyota a few years ago when XC70's were expensive and your Toyota was newer.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 1:35pm
That said, sure if there other reasons to buy the more expensive car thats fine. But that is not the point of the thread, I am more concerned with the ones that are only buying on perceived reliability. Hence the thread being called "when did we get so reliability obsessed."
johnf_456,
Mar 24, 1:47pm
Just as long has its a holden cause according to you holden are perfect no matter what and all aussie 100%
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 2:01pm
Well said, I think also their opinions are similar to the rest of the world because they don't import masses of used Japanese imports and use them to make up nearly the entirety of their used car market.
illusion_,
Mar 24, 2:03pm
Car B is a Multipla.
Grandma aint stupid
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 2:04pm
By the way, just to clarify. Even though this is mostly a Euro vs Japanese argument its not entirely that way. I see the same happen on occasion with some Japanese and Ozzy cars as well.
mcscottwgtn,
Mar 24, 2:23pm
I think looking at the service history or lack of is just as important as the badge on the bonnet. Wonder why they strip them out of imports! So what if it is in a different tongue. We can all read a service book stamp, the milage and the date. Go to google and translate the blurb by the stamp if required. Neighbour has an S Class Merc and does his own servicing. Says it would be a non starter if he couldn't service it himself. Reliability has heaps to do with its history. Would you buy anything after the Top Gear team has had its poors on it!
jkm,
Mar 24, 2:32pm
Why shoot Scotty down! he has not even mentioned Holden in this thread. No need to carry over your grudges from other threads.!
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 3:35pm
Couldn't agree more! Its all about balance, service history, km's, type of use etc.
johnf_456,
Mar 24, 3:39pm
Because he often goes on about holden, free speech. Its not a grudge its a fact, he harps on about it.
1fordluva,
Mar 24, 3:45pm
If its got 4 black doughnuts and an engine that goes alright,I dont give to much thought to it really. I have owned jap,aussie,euro. Just maintain them to a set standard and the majority of them will see you right.
craig04,
Mar 24, 4:04pm
This is an interesting question. If I was to buy a car just for me and not the family, I would be looking for something fun, character filled and interesting. Since I have a company car and two money sucking small children this probably won't be happening anytime soon. However my wifes car is a different story. Since she uses it everyday running the kids around during the day before going to work from 5 - 11pm each evening reliability is paramount. She drives a Corolla and I accept it cost a premium over other alternatives and whilst the economy is good, it isn't great. However (and this is what I feel may be the case for many people), the inconvenience of having to have the car off the road for repairs causes far too much disruption to her routine. In the 2 years we have owned it, nothing has gone wrong with it. And since they cost a premium to buy, their resale value will be comparitively high also.
craig04,
Mar 24, 4:15pm
I think I've said it before (and I must have dozed off halfway through your response) but if 95% of all people who purchase a Euro have a trouble free run out of it and found parts and servicing etc to be fairly priced, there would be no stigma. You must agree that stereotypes are derived from some portion of the truth.
1fordluva,
Mar 24, 4:19pm
Hey so do ford chap lol
johnf_456,
Mar 24, 4:22pm
so how can holden be the best then with that statement.
1fordluva,
Mar 24, 4:31pm
He said fantastic not best,dont go starting things you will wont to vote on aye.
johnf_456,
Mar 24, 4:33pm
They are best has he has said it in other threads often so what do you mean he hasnt said it! Vote on!
stevo2,
Mar 24, 4:34pm
Going back to the original post- Why do people pay a premium to get a reliable car! Most will say its because of not wanting to spend too much money on repairs while others want to keep their reale value as high as possible. My reason is covenience, I dont want to spend any of my precious time repairing or sending them into the shop for repairs. If my van is off the road for a day I have lost a few hundy cause I couldnt go to work that day, If its off the road for a week while waiting for something to come from Italy, I've lost a shiteload. Same thing with our other cars although I can reluctantly talk Mrs Stevo into dropping them into the workshop in her lunch hour. I change oil and filters in all of our vehicles but with all the computers and electronics these days, thats as far as I want to go. Cheers Stevo
johnf_456,
Mar 24, 4:38pm
If you give it ago steveo you will find you can do a lot more than oil changes from a home garage. I know lots of clued up people who are not mechanics that change parts as part of maintenance and often do work. Just don't touch the computer if its faulty otherwise just do the usual stuff pads, light bulbs, spark plugs. coolant flushes.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 4:41pm
Funny though that the stereotype is not really a major factor in other countries and that when you actually look properly at tangible evidence like the reliability index's top 100 http://www.reliabilityindex.com/top-100 there really is no Euro/Japanese split.
Sure they appear to dominate the top 10 but when you look harder its actually just two very basic very old models in the top two, the first properly equipped modern car is the Volvo. Start comparing actual proper cars (not cut down shopping baskets) and you see a real mix.
For example the later model Corolla features right next to the Polo.
craig04,
Mar 24, 4:56pm
This is New Zealand> other countries statistics may be interesting but not relevant.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 5:09pm
Why not! Sure there are some (usually minor) differences in spec but why would a car thats reliable in the U.K suddenly be unreliable in NZ. Its also easy to check if there are any relevant differences in a particular model.
The U.K has harsher weather and more cars are left outside so logic would say it should be a good test bed.
Besides we trust their safety ratings don't we!
Plus NZ statistics are not published and even if you did publish warranty specs here there would not be enough volume to make them even close to accurate. The reliabilityindex is the biggest warranty company in the U.K and they only have 50'000 claims to search through (which isnt many when spread over hundreds of makes/models)
craig04,
Mar 24, 5:24pm
I guess in the UKmainstream Euroand mainstream Japanese cars when used for intended purposes are probably similar overall for reliability. I guess that since there are a higher proportion of Euro's in UK versus NZ, parts would be readily available and affordable over there too. But back in NZ where we have less Euro's we also have less parts and less experienced service agents available to us. Therefore, in the case of a breakdown it is generally more timely and costly to repair than it's Japanese counterpart. Higher cost + higher inconvenience factor = stereotype. I'm not slagging Euro's off, this is just my opinion on the stereotype.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 5:30pm
I agree in a round about kind of way. The perception is certainly there and it is definitely easier to come unstuck by taking a Euro to a prestige place that charges through the nose. Or to strike a boof head mechanic that finds trouble because they expect trouble (and don't know where to source parts).
The Repco's and BNT's are definitely better setup for Japanese cars.
So yeah, I reckon there is something to that. In reality with just a little bit of common sense parts and service are easy and cheap (in fact often much better than Japanese stuff)
But, its an easy trap to fall into.
There are some exceptions to the rules on parts too, Volvo NZ is a classic for overcharging and unlike VW, BMW etc there seems to be very limited opposition.
stevo2,
Mar 24, 5:34pm
Yep, have done all sorts in the past from rebuilding my small block chev to machining (planing and valve job) the heads on my grenada V6, brakes, bearings, bodywork, spray painting etc. Nowadays I've got better things to do with my weekends (I've only been home for 5 weekends in the last 12 months). Cheers Stevo
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