I know I have seen it on here for a very long time now, but I just don't understand people who happily spend thousands of dollars extra a year on a car and/or buy a far lesser vehicle just because in their mind it might be a bit more reliable.
When did we become a nation of people of people living in fear of something breaking with no real ability for critical thinking and basic math!
Why do people listen to the Dog and Lemon guide over those that have actually owned many of the vehicle in question!
Do other people just have too much disposable income!
There you go, the spring has been wound up!
pollymay,
Mar 24, 11:27am
I buy piles of unreliable crap which is why I have 7 mr2s. Rear engined fun.
And it's cause people are lazy, to be honest it is nice having a a reliable daily driver. I was driving my V6 mr2 daily for a while and things broke a lot.
tgray,
Mar 24, 11:33am
The dog and lemon guide would have worked great about 30 years ago when we had dogs and lemons. If you are to believe them now, they think only two cars on the planet are any good - the corolla and the starlet. All the rest, be extra vigilant or better still, give them a wide berth. It's complete nonsense, but helps to sell his publication. New Zealanders are obsessed with reliability, because we are one of the lowest paid first world nations on earth and have little disposable income. As a nation, what little we do have, goes towards our obsession with owning houses and hence, paying off 30 year mortages.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 11:36am
I agree it is nice driving a reliable every day car, but often there is little or no reliability difference in the vehicles in question.
It just seems strange that at a time when the vast majority of modern vehicles are very reliable, reliability is the one and only criteria people have.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 11:40am
Well said, I find it so funny that when we have so little disposable income we fail to do the math and actually make the much more economical choice.
We seem happy to throw away a guaranteed amount every year on the dearer but supposedly more reliable car vs the possibility of paying a little extra in repairs at some point in time.
We also seem to just buy purely on badge and not condition. Its like if people have to consider more than one criteria its all just way to complicated and they give up.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 11:44am
LOL, your descriptions as always are fantastic papariccardo! You raise an excellent point about the Honda's too. Its so funny that the German cars are considered by many to be costly and unreliable here yet overseas the term "German reliability" is one used frequently!
I guess it just goes to show how humans ultimately make decisions based on emotion rather than logic. Fear seems to be the strongest emotion in decision making as well.
If you need an example look at the upset caused by the completely unqualified and totally depbunked theories of Ken Ring recently.
cjohnw,
Mar 24, 11:47am
Can any of you understand why Grandma in her 70's might want a newer, reliable car! Worrying about repairs and maintenance seems to inflict the elderly worse than those much younger. Possibly something to do with limited retirement income.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 11:54am
I think you miss the point a little bit. I can fully understand the need for reliability but to use your example, here's the odd bit Grandma is offered the following choices:
Car A Most recognised brand, the brand her peers drive. 1999 Model 100'000km on the clock $10'000
Car B One of the top 5 manufactures in the world and revered overseas but not socially accepted in NZ 2002 Model 50'000km on the clock Better condition, safer and more economical than car A. Parts are cheaper than car A. When condition + milage + reliability statistics of model are taken into account reliability is likely the same as car A. $6000
Which car will she most likely buy!
Car A.
bmwnz,
Mar 24, 11:55am
Tightening the spring, why do some Kiwis use yankisms such as 'math' for mathematics, when the std diminutive form in NZ is 'maths'! Why also do some people feel the need to put down other's choices!
The answers are simple. People have different ways and preferences of doing things. There nowt at all wrong with having opinions and expressing them. That's good and normal. What is wrong and unhealthy IMO is people who hold dear to the belief that their opinion is the only valid one and express their opinions as 'facts'.
To answer your question from my perspective, reliability is very high on my list simply because my income is zero and I cannot afford to pay for any breakdowns or parts. Add to that my total dislike of old cars and you may get the picture.
All that said, I've owned and driven a LOT of cars and I chose my present car not because you or anyone else might like it, in fact I know that the OP does NOT like it, but simply because I love it bits. I get my own thrill from driving it, yet it was cheap (I consider $12k to be cheap - it had only done 20,000km when I bought it) and so far has proven to be 100% reliable. Then again, I don't crave all the bells and whistles. For instance I've almost never used the a/c or the stereo. When I had electric sunroofs, they stayed closed. GPS - of zero use to me. Plain and simple is my choice.
thunderbolt,
Mar 24, 11:57am
She would buy the older car with more Km in your example!
Unless car B was a total unknown in NZ, I dont agree.
elect70,
Mar 24, 11:58am
Perhaps they dont want2nd mortgageon the house to pay forrepairs ., or of the roadmore than on it. My 1 &only brand new car 85 nissan bluebird swservicevan ( no rear seat ) spent 1/4 of its life with me in the workshop & none of it was covered by warranty , rusted gutters , leaking windscreen , poor performance & hi fuel use , rear diff niosy , battery going flat, sometimes within 2hrs of being parked, rear tailgate not closing properly ( They cured that by disconnecting the switch ) . POSsold it after 1year.& bought usedfalcon panel vanthat gave me 5years trouble free use
bmwnz,
Mar 24, 11:58am
I'm a grandad & I'd choose Car B.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 11:59am
bmwnz, plain and simple does increase reliability. (Have a close study of the reliabilityindex top 100 and you will see exactly that trend)
The point here though is that assuming same year and km's people seem happy to spend 3 times as much for a plain and simple car from manufacturer A than manufacturer B.
Opinions etc aside it dosn't take an engineer or mathematics expert to determine that manufactuer B's car is going to cost them substantially less.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 12:03pm
Admittedly some in here are much more car savy than the typical individual, but also when presented like that in logical form almost everyone is going to pick car B. Which by the way is a psychological problem that has only recently been solved in marketing. but I digress.
Anyhow, give car A a Toyota or Suzuki label and car B a Fiat label and people pick car A nearly every time.
bmwnz,
Mar 24, 12:08pm
LOL, You're right some of us are weird. For instance, assuming I liked the look of the car and all other aspects were similar, I'd pick the Fiat over any Toyota or Suzuki every time.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 12:10pm
Aha! Thanks elect70, This is a great example of 2 things. 1. Older cars from a time when rust etc was a real problem being used as an example to justify a decision effecting cars that are 20 years newer.
2. Emotion being used instead of considered logic for the basis of the decisions. "Mortage the House" and terms like that scare the begeezes out of people!
Not knocking your response BTW, in the context of the 80's your experience would have been useful and relevant, but times change and its really important to re-test things to suit the situation.
richardmayes,
Mar 24, 12:12pm
Because we are all complete idiots, with a sheep-like mentality, who have not yet been shown your shining light. Yeah, that's it.
Reason 1: When something breaks down, it is wonderful to be able to go to the garage just around the corner, and describe the problem to the proprietor, and have him say with certainty "Yes, I know exactly what that is, I did two the same last week and three the week before. The part will cost you about $300 and my supplier in Auckland will probably get it here by about Thursday or Friday. It'll take me about two hours' labour to do it."
Reason 2: Modern Fiats and VWs are pretty but not as pretty as you think they are. They are just another hatchback on the road, with black window frames and silver mag wheels, and a plastic dashboard with speedo, rev counter, temp and fuel gauge much like any contemporary Japper. And a row of 3 round knobs to make the heater go. The bad old days of rusty grenading alfas may have gone, but their heyday as impossibly sexy works of art that stand out from the crowd has gone, also.
thunderbolt,
Mar 24, 12:12pm
Thats because they are making a judgement on other's experiences with older cars. Japanese cars have generally been more reliable and cheaper to repair than Euro's.
Maybe that has changed, but not enough people have the knowledge and/or the experience to change the perceptions.
I am a qualified mechanic who has been off the tools for 10 yrs now, but I have remained in the industry as a supplier. I still have the "perception" that euro's cost more to maintain, and poorly maintained asian import versions have done nothing to change that.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 12:13pm
Me too, I pick the Fiat because I have owned loads of them, service them myself and most importantly I sit down with a spreadsheet and do the math.
IF I was say looking at a Citroen which I know nothing about (which is the more typical situation with people) my methods differ, I exchange my first hand knowledge for research.An hour on the phone and internet getting actual prices for parts and tapping into the knowledge of those who actually repair them usually reveals a lot.
johnf_456,
Mar 24, 12:18pm
Are you sure your not a priest yet jazz!
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 12:25pm
To address reason 2 first. You make a great point, Fiats (and we are not just talking Fiats here) are not necessarily loads better. The Punto I like so much is still a little car, the trim could be a bit more hard wearing and despite being very safe the panels feel a bit tinny.
However, because of the way things are priced it competes at the same price point as much older lesser vehicles against which it is much better. Also, we only get high spec Punto's in NZ which have advantages over some of the very cheap low spec cars that are a bit overpriced.
To address point 2, how often do you go to the Garage! Aside from oil/filter changes my cars on average only encounter a problem every couple of years or so. I am yet to have anything wierd or odd happen that a local garage couldn't diagnose.
Admittedly if I do have something of substance that needs attention I ring the specialist parts supplier first and the garage second (although now I have time I often fix things myself). The process is just as easy, I call, say what the problem is and the parts guys say "oh that will be "X" you need part "Y" would you like me to courier one down!"
I freely admit however that dropping something out of the ordinary down to a substandard or mechanic "prestige dealer" can lead to expensive bills and hassle. But its not a hard thing to avoid.
You make good points.
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 12:27pm
LOL no, I just get frustrated at peoples logic sometimes. BTW, some of this stuff sounds a bit condescending and arrogant as I write it. Its not intended that way.
By the way John, that wasn't an attempt at humour from you now was it! What's that noise I am hearing. Flap, Oink, Flap, Oink, Flap,Oink.
dagwood1,
Mar 24, 12:53pm
Interesting. wife and I have been running Toyota's - one of your horrible '97 2.4 Estimas no less! It did us for 8 years and other than servicing - virtually no repairs. Sold it for a Hiace Regius 'cause we needed to fit a wheelchair hoist. The other car, a '97 3.0 Surf has done everything asked for 7 years and at 200,000+ ks is showing no signs of slowing down. I guess we see repairs as dead money whereas invest a little more for a vehicle with a (perhaps perceived) good reputation, you'll get it back in reduced repairs (hopefully) AND resale (definitely). Whereas I looked at the XC70's. I see huge depreciation from their new price - hmm that's interesting I might get a big bang for my buck. Then I see one listed as having serious work including a new steering rack fitted at 100,000ks. Now, if I'm honest, my reaction is move on, lets look at a Highlander.
cjohnw,
Mar 24, 1:04pm
No, neither option you provide.
Car C: She bought a near new, well known and respected NZ brand (Mazda) with a factory warranty and less than 20,000km on the clock.
Gave her total peace of mind for well into the future. Money was not the first consideration, but she did buy within a "budget".
But that's Nana's for you
thejazzpianoma,
Mar 24, 1:22pm
What on earth have you been smoking! Did you even read the thread!
This has nothing to do with "cool" or fashion this considering strictly the bottom line, being "total cost of ownership over time".
The "being able to park anywhere" "heavy steering" and "soft seat" arguments are just weird at best. We are not talking about Ferrari's here.
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