just goes to show- two top drivers, same initials - both killed in rally cars!
socram,
Jun 15, 7:02am
Possum wasn't killed whilst actually competing.
modie61,
Jun 15, 8:59am
So a rally car has all the factory safety devices removed ! Is that correct ! If so,is acert plate really what we need to have ! Or should a rally car not be allowed on the road !
socram,
Jun 15, 11:08am
Can't really undertstand that post!I would have thought that just by fitting full harness belts, in the event of a crunch, you'd be much better off than in a lap and diagonal - particularly in a side impact crash.Addany form of increased roll protection and I'd feel much happier than in any standard road car. The only item normally removed is the air bag system and maybe the steering lock, so given that there are no classic rally cars that ever had an airbag fitted in the first place, that is a red herring.The steering lock is an anti theft device not a safety device.
modie61,
Jun 15, 3:23pm
Do they disconnect the abs ! I reckon the cert system is crap,how can a v8 Morris Minor be a safe car ! Or even closer to home,a Subau Legacy with a 350 chev in it,with the steering rack mounted under the crossmember ! Wont see my name on it We have a 200kw KP62 Starlet, not too far from here, all certedand it has standard brakes ! What the.
motorboy2011,
Jun 15, 4:13pm
I wonder the same when I see obviously modded cars with standard brakes. in regards to brakes, what is the actual test to get cert after a more powerful engine is fitted!
socram,
Jun 15, 4:15pm
There are many V8 transplants that work perfectly well.My own project car has the cast iron 4 cylinder 1500cc swapped for a 3.5 litre alloy V8 weighing the same and mounted behind the front axle line. The suspension is all purpose built, but instead of drum brakes, it has 4 wheel discs.I do not consider this to be either misguided or unsafe.
Surely, it is up to the certifier to reject anything deemed unsafe and they must be prepared to justify it!
modie61,
Jun 15, 4:21pm
I agree socram,there is good and bad conversions,the type get to see are the shockers im afraid,it leaves me cold,if i had my way they would be crushed before they cause carnage. The system needs a good looking at from my point of view. Also some, vehicle inspectors dont even check the cert plates to see if what is on them ties up with what is actually on the vehicle in front of them.
fordcrzy,
Jun 15, 4:53pm
when i had my turbo conversion certed, the workshop had a scratch built t bucket and a VW with a porsche turbo motor in it. my cert was a piece of cake compared to those. i mean how can a 700Hp t bucket with 4" front tyres be safe compared toa modern sports car with standard brakes!
3wheelnut,
Jun 16, 5:40am
Modie, any car approved for motorsport by the MSNZ has to have plates. If you are in the industry you should know the rules. Full harness, cages, race seats etc are all part of that.
modie61,
Jun 16, 6:42am
I know that 3wheelnut,but what im getting at is that a lot of modified cars dont have all of the mods on the plate,and some inspectors,im talking about wof inspectors here,dont check or know how to check for more mods,an example is a nice early Datsun i know of that has a fully rosejointed rear end set up amongst other mods,but none of that is on the plate. And btw the wof is not done by a VTNZ its done by a local garage.
socram,
Jun 16, 8:07am
Since when!Are you confusing this with the need for an authority card if a car is used on the road with harness belts and a cage! Circuit racing/sprints etc. under MSNZ, the car needs scrutineering but there is no requirement for a certification plate of any sort other than for the rollover bar or cage impinging on the passenger/driver area, whichneeds to be MSNZ approved. Scrutineeering is now on a self signing process by the driver but the car has to be presented to the scrutineer every 3rd event or six months and it is up to the scrutineer as to what he physically checks.This can also include a random audit of any car at any time during any event.
This avoids the old system of horrific workloads of a compulsory check when there are 300 cars at an event and seems to work very well indeed. It only applies if the competitor has a logbook, (not compulsory in clubsport events) otherwise they need scrutineering at every event.
movnon,
Jun 16, 9:27am
yes you are right & i didnt say Possum was competing!My comment was that both PB's were top drivers.
pollymay,
Jun 16, 12:05pm
Mine doesn't have all the mods on the plate. My plate would be about 3 metres square otherwise. The ultimate responsibility falls to the driver, if a garage is unhappy to inspect the car they can refuse. I really don't see the issue, I've discussed with the garage that inspects my car what the deal is, they've driven the car and all is well. Most accidents are never mechanical failure or lax brakes, it's the nut behind the wheel.
3wheelnut,
Jun 16, 12:21pm
Socram, no longer called scrutineering, now it's an audit, and has been for a while. It is up to the organisers to say how they do the required percentage audit. They can do a full job on the %age of cars, or the same item on most. Checking that +ve post is covered on every car gets close to the requirement. If you have an authority card it has to cover every non compliant issue, eg hydraulic handbrake, alternative glazing as well as the cage and belts you mention, and others.
modie61,
Jun 16, 12:29pm
Thats why the car is in my garage polly,2 broken rose joints,shouldnt be on the road in my opinion or have a wof.
serf407,
Jun 16, 7:39pm
Reports are being posted that Gareth Roberts (Craig Breen's codriver) has passed away as a result of an accident on the Targa Florio (IRC Rally) in Italy. http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/100411
pollymay,
Jun 16, 11:55pm
Depends what size joints and what material, also brand. I can get real hefty ones, they don't break, have huge side load rating and basically won't fail. It goes for anything, I've seen brand new slotted rotors explode because it's chinese pot metal. No one would know except the person that installed the $20 ebay specials on the car to look cool in the first place, once again driver/builder responsibility.
modie61,
Jun 17, 8:13am
In that case there is no point in having a wof inspection for safety is there !
bill-robinson,
Jun 17, 9:12am
Do you count on a WoF to keep your car safe! It is a minimum standard for road use. You still have to maintain that minimum standard at all times on a public highway.
modie61,
Jun 17, 10:07am
I agree bill,i maintain mine to wof standard all the time,but why do we need a wof when they are not checking the cars properly,ie rosejoints fit for purpose.
joanie32,
Jun 17, 10:18am
i have a 400+hp morris minor in build stage at the moment. Guarenteed its safer tha when it was built in 49.
pollymay,
Jun 17, 10:44am
Because you can't check to the 900th degree. No one is going to be x-raying and crack testing each brake rotor or tensile testing the threaded rosejoint arms. You can get cheap aftermarket standard replacement parts and bushings that fail as well, nolathane stuff that cracks then separates comes to mind.
I've broken suspension bolts on holding arms and all sorts, does that mean we should crack test every bolt on a WOF!
modie61,
Jun 17, 11:25am
If you could only see the size of the rose joints polly. a blind inspector could see they wouldnt work. I found out that the garage didnt inspect under the car,just the lights and authority card, then it went racing and well it didnt last long. Oh was driven to the track too. Come on,what standards do we have here !
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