The government are introducing the LAMs system of 'learner approved' bikes for newbie riders, similar to Aussie. This is a great system allowing new riders to ride bikes such as a DR650 or F650 BMW (full sized/sensible bikes). However the same government puts these sensible bikes into the highest ACC levy group when it comes to rego time, along with 320kph superbikes. Strangely a 600cc sport bike capable of almost double the top speed of said 650's comes into the lower (safer!) bracket of ACC levy. Seems to me a huge contradiction in the rules - time to write another letter to the Minister (I know I'm wasting my time but what the hell).
kwaka5,
Jul 19, 6:58pm
yup and as it stands so will an aprilia rs250. The size of the bike is not where the damage lies it's in the nut on top. Funny thing is about the acc thing, was havin a chat to a friend, who is an ED Doc, reakons she doesn't see as many motorbikers as she does see road cyclists. Would love to know the true motorcycle accidents where the fault is the bikers and not bike invloved. Not a farm bike accident or an off road accident or push bike for that matter. Bet it's not as bad as the gov would have us believe. Asked Nick Smith for those stats when the sh&t was going on the first time round but he wouldn't release anything.
sifty,
Jul 19, 7:06pm
That whole thing was a debacle, backed by very dubious figures. Glad those stupid learner restrictions are changing. They just encouraged newbies to either flout the law or buy completely unsuitable rockets rather than a more placid, forgiving bike deemed 'dangerous' by the authorities.
Personally, I would happily pay a yearly licence fee for the bike, as there IS some higher risk on the road. regarless of whose fault it is.
Ideally this should be linked to your accident record, and diminish as you prove your safety status. I may be biased though as I have many bikes and really resent licencing each one. Some of them only get out a few days a year, and makes them bloody expensive toys.
tats63,
Jul 19, 7:47pm
Agree entirely, should be some kind of 'no claims' system, plus ACC levy should be linked to yearly mileage. The current rego. System shows no consistency
berg,
Jul 19, 8:57pm
Both Mr and Mrs Berg own 750s. Both pay the same rego, Mrs Berg does 30,000kms plus per year while Mr Berg only does 5-10,000. We work out that ACC averages out not too badly for us as the fuel savings for Mrs Berg alone are huge then there is the parking in Wgtn which is free with the bike but $1200 per year for the car. I do understand others frustrations though. On the learner rider equation, about time they tidied this one up as there have been huge issues with this for years. Many moons ago I used to ride a XZ400 on a learner licence. I then rode a learner legal NS250r, a bike that was twice as fast as the 400, twice as twitchy, and easily twice as dangerous in the wrong hands. The other thing I believe they are going to impose is a maximum of two years on the graduated levels of the licence. No sitting for years on a learner without the requirement for further improvement. That in itself could only be a good thing.
friendly_prawn,
Jul 19, 8:59pm
purposely trying to create more confusion and more paperwork to justify their jobs. If gives them something to do.
berg,
Jul 19, 9:05pm
Not quite FP. This was actually pushed by the biker groups not by government
friendly_prawn,
Jul 19, 9:06pm
oh, guess I should have read more than the first post. cheers berg.
sifty,
Jul 19, 9:08pm
Um no, appears some thought actually went into this.
smac,
Jul 19, 9:19pm
From 2006-2010, of crashes that involved motorcycles:
31% were single vehicle (i.e. just the bike) and it was the riders fault - these are the cases where natural selection is at work
24% were multi vehicle and it was the riders fault
37% were multi vehicle, no fault identified with the rider
7% were multi vehicle, some fault identified with the rider
2% single vehicle, no fault
Interestingly as the severity of the crash increases, so does the likelihood of it being the riders fault: that is, riders were at fault more often in fatal accidents than they are in minor or serious injury crashes. This is in line with anecdotal evidence in the past that has said where it's the car's fault, it's usually a case of pulling out on front of the bike at an intersection (usually in town), whereas when it's the bike fault, it's usually high speed, high consequence.
trogedon,
Jul 19, 9:31pm
Think how much $ you'd save if she was at home with babies.
smac,
Jul 19, 9:31pm
And the flip side, cyclists fault, from the same period:
63% no cyclist fault identified
23% cyclist was primarily at fault
14% some fault
As to the earlier comment from the ED doc, it's a little off.
Per million hours spent travelling, motorcyclists are inured or killed WAY more than any other transport method. About 230 deaths/injuries (per million hours) for motorcyclists, and about 30 for cyclists. Cars, pedestrian, bus etc all under 10.
ianrich,
Jul 19, 10:06pm
I have been making this point since a cyclist face planted my truck on the Coromandel peninsula in 2008. If it meant a reduction in ACC levies for my motorbike I would be quite happy paying a small licencing fee to be allowed to ride my bicycle on the road knowing that eventually I will need the assistance of ACC.
berg,
Jul 19, 10:16pm
Oh hell no lol. Two professional people here with no intention of having kids. After all, there's not much room in the garage now. Where would we put them.
hamishcookie,
Jul 19, 10:30pm
Are those stats only road or off road as well!
chebry,
Jul 19, 10:31pm
THat was dumb coz now your seeing Aussie 3rd party insurance charges where a Motor bike is THE most expensive thing to register.
smac,
Jul 19, 11:42pm
Don't actually know for sure. On the MoT site where these are published I think they have info on how the data is sourced, try there.
tats63,
Jul 20, 12:02am
And what is the ACC levy for cyclists!
smac,
Jul 20, 12:23am
Never have quite understood the point of asking rhetorical questions in a forum.
tats63,
Jul 20, 1:58am
It was sarcasm, if that needs pointing out. You seem to have all the figures damning the motorcyclist, however if ALL ACC users payed their way, including cyclists, the system would be fair for all. I would add that cyclists claims are not just accident injury but also stress and strain type injuries - all covered by ACC . The actual point of my thread was the inconsistency of the system - putting a particular class of motorcycle into the 'less safe' high levy bracket, then labelling the same bike a 'learner approved motorcycle'.
smac,
Jul 20, 2:13am
Ya I agree completely that there's an apparent inconsistency. I simply offered up the numbers because a couple of people asked. I wasn't offering an opinion one way or the other on the ACC thing.
I think there ARE some serious questions that motorcyclists can ask of ACC around their funding model. The problem they have is that all too often those motorcyclists start by saying "we're not that big a risk.why charge us more.". They will never get any traction what so ever clinging to that view, as it's been shown to be fundamentally wrong.
mrmann,
Jul 20, 2:30am
When all the acc levies went through the roof last the most expensive road in the manawatu for acc claims was himitangi beach so how many road regeristerd bikes ya see there!
berg,
Jul 20, 3:19am
My crash was called a "motorcycle related crash" by ACC and was entered as a single bike, rider at fault event. It was a quad, on a closed circuit (forest) and yep, the rider was at fault. I tried to have them change it to a sporting injury but they were adamint that it was a motorcycle crash.
kwaka5,
Jul 20, 4:17am
smac. you have some fantastic figures but again how many were actually road related. Thats the bit i really want to know. Yes there are lots of motorcyle accidents but how many were actually on a public road. Can we have the stats that are road related only on public roads. Lets take away all the race bike accidents on road and track, dirt bike accidents in motorcross, enduros, trail rides and farm bikes + ATV's and actually see the real picture. I'm thinking it's not as bad as it is made out.
kwaka5,
Jul 20, 4:20am
I would also like to see registration changed to the ridernot the bike. In our family of bikes there are 4 and 2 riders. Not going to reg them all at the same time as not ridden at the same time. Surely a plate issued to a rider would be better. Keep bikes in WOF state and just have one reg owner and change plate to bike used. Any thoughts on that
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