"The New Zealand Police will make a business case to the New Zealand Transport Agency."
Says it all really.
It also irritates the hang out of me that they get away with telling the public such outright lies as:
"All international evidence shows that speed cameras are highly effective in slowing vehicles down and saving lives."
The reality is that international studies have returned pretty mixed and controversial results. Some of the statistics used as justification for speed camera's have been blatantly flawed. Plenty of instances where camera's have been removed and crash rates have reduced even.
Certainly situations like we have in NZ where mobile camera's are placed partially obscured in the middle of passing lanes would have to be very questionable in terms of whether they are increasing or decreasing safety. At the risk of speaking without the backing of actual statistics (like the NZ Police do) I would say common sense would infer that such practice is incredibly dangerous. I have certainly seen some scary mayhem when multiple drivers are passing and then come across them mid maneuver.
Why can't they just be up front and honest with the public and present things for what they are, good, bad or mixed and provide us with the actual studies they have used for justification.
mr-serious,
Aug 29, 1:18pm
Someones making a killing, and thats before the revenue collecting begins.
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 1:19pm
Exactly, and that's what its all about. Lobbying by those with vested interests.
smac,
Aug 29, 1:32pm
Crap. I ALMOST agree with Jazz on an enforcement issue. Almost.
Where we differ is that I don't fall into the trap of thinking "business case" has anything to do with money. Business case is a generic term that in this case will have little to do with money. It will be around safety and enforcement goals.
However I do agree that linking this expenditure on speed cameras to safety is a dubious link at best. I'd happily see my tax dollars spent on cameras, if it was going to be cameras targeting intersection behaviour, red lights, following distances, passing manoeuvres etc
An $80 fine a month after a passing lane pass doesn't teach anyone anything. Demerits for running a red light with the evidence to prove it (not an officers word) might.
gedo1,
Aug 29, 1:36pm
Here's a thought Jazz (and gidday, by the way).When are you putting forward a case to NZTA to counter the Police business case, using all the data you have collected to prove their case is inaccurately based.But please make sure you keep us informed, won't you!Oh, I nearly forgot. what happened when you complained to the Police about the positioning of a speed cameras in the middle of that passing lane that time!You know the one - you showed me how you can get photos off Google Earth. Did you get a result!
gedo1,
Aug 29, 1:39pm
If you think New Zealand has the speed cameras then check out Western Australia. Amazing technology on their traffic enforcement cameras!
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 1:42pm
Gidday Gedo1, I have made numerous complaints about such things over the years. I am yet to get any sort of proper tangible result. The closest I have come was getting some of the absurd nonsense on the rightcar website fixed.
The best I can see is keeping the word out there, its a hard job getting people to wake up and start questioning and doing their own math to compare with what they are told. However in the end I think that's ultimately what will make the most difference. (Kind of like teach a man to fish etc)
Will I make much of a difference! Who knows, probably not.
Will it stop me doing what I feel is right and doing my bit to push us all in a better direction! No.
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 1:45pm
In the article that was pretty much the justification. "Aussie has more per capita so we need to catch up"
How about we put the money towards catching their standards of living instead!
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 1:47pm
BTW, I know I come off as anti-Police and anti-safety. I am actually very pro-safety, I just want to see open, honest and fair Policing that targets the actual risks and problems.
Not spin doctored populist nonsense that is designed to appease the people with as little net cost as possible. With actual solving of crime and public safety coming a distant second.
In other words, if I witness a kidnapping or find my stolen car and ring the cops I want them to come now. I want to be able to cruise at 100km/h with my eyes on the road and to pull out and pass with my foot on the floor without fear of reprimand. (Assuming it was safe and sensible to do so)
But when its pouring with rain, I am doing 80 - 90km/h and some nut goes flying past me on yellow lines I would like some action please.
morrisman1,
Aug 29, 3:28pm
To have effective policing you have to work with the community, not against them. Speed cameras have nothing constructive about them, they punish for offenses that the offender probably can't remember and hence has no ability to adjust their behaviour.
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 3:30pm
Somethings wrong. first Morrisman agrees with me. now I agree with him. Clearly one of us needs to visit the doctor. Even my reliable sparring partner Kazbanz hasn't put up much of a fight today.
Oh well, a change is always nice, I am sure it won't last.
morrisman1,
Aug 29, 3:32pm
Jazz, we have always agreed on this issue!
hounddog2,
Aug 29, 3:44pm
@ $160,000 a piece how long will it take each of them to make a profit! 6 months! A year!
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 3:49pm
Probably not long at all. The total road policing revenue target is about 100M per year (Usually falls a bit short though). So in rough termssurely its only a matter of a few months.
gunhand,
Aug 29, 4:18pm
So what your saying is people dont remember they speed! Therefore if they dont remember they speed therefore they dont really know there doing it in the first place!Interesting.Maybe those sorts do need a reminder from time to time.But I guess at that excat time and place that they accidently speed or crept up abit as they wernt paying attention they got pinged. What are the odds! Some people just have bad luck I guess.
nzoomed,
Aug 29, 5:18pm
I sort of agree with morrisman1, its not about remembering if you speed or not, its more about being conscious of your driving habbits. Placing them in areas such as at the end of a passing lane seems wrong too. I think they should invest in more of those speed signs that alert the drivers to the actual speed they are travelling, on an interesting note, i always notice that they actually read about 2-3 km/h less than what my speedo reads, i think its a great idea to remind people what speed they are doing, rather than give out random fines. $160,000 is alot per camera, i still dont know how they could cost that much, but 55 speed cameras for the whole of NZ seems wrong, i would have thought we would have had more than that in this country.
3tomany,
Aug 29, 5:36pm
i wonder what the return on investment is. they could do like with the power generators and offer them to new zealanders to invest. could be a good investment
morrisman1,
Aug 29, 5:39pm
at least they are radar based, so we can pick them up but no doubt like the mobile cameras you wont get much warning
3tomany,
Aug 29, 5:41pm
i wonder if the radar will be accurate after the local youth tag the sencers
pebbles61,
Aug 29, 5:48pm
Come on now, the flith love giving out tickets =D
thejazzpianoma,
Aug 29, 5:54pm
Its certainly an interesting way of looking at it, I would be in!
Thing is though, as an investment it only costs the country it doesn't generate anything useful. Its a bit like when people moan because the government is cutting staff in government departments, they don't understand that those jobs don't produce anything to help the country.
modie61,
Aug 29, 6:03pm
Do you think car speedos should be calibration checked at wof inspections,to make sure they are true ! If the Police have calibrated speedos,why dont we !
3tomany,
Aug 29, 6:05pm
you can have a callibrated speedo problem is you gotta pay for it
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