Every course I been to has had both class room time and driving time with an instructor beside you. The best one was a fair time ago and was at Pukekohe, I think it was run by Ford trainers
jantar,
Dec 30, 8:41am
From your comments on the maximum speed thread, you show an extreme lack of understanding about the relationship between gearing, engine performance, and fuel consumption. This would have to make you a well below average driver.
peja,
Dec 30, 8:54am
Revenue gathering. The whole motorway system is safe at 100kmh, traffic permitting, and should be limited as such. The 80kmh limit was only put in place on the bridge after a recidivist drunk driver went across the bridge the wrong way and had a head on crash. An 80kmh limit was later imposed on the viaduct after an SUV and trailer went off it. also a recidivist drunk driver.
Surely the problem was drunk drivers, not speeding drivers, and the solution was and is to lock up more drink drivers
peja,
Dec 30, 9:08am
I'd say you are a good driver, or at least well better than average - and the following key words tell me that. "just one moment of inattention"
This is something that a lot of the steerers out there totally fail on
socram,
Dec 31, 6:33am
Just read a traffic cop's comment in today's paper about driving and it set me thinking.
In industry, we have always accepted that people are neither machines nor computers, but are subject to human error. When I was doing my training, it was explained that every human being, no matter how competent or how skilled, is likely to have a 4% error rate. That is why even aircraft mechanics have their work checked and signed off.
Most of you, if you are honest, will accept that a 4% error rate is pretty accurate, even when on top of your game.
I was distracted yesterday when approaching a set of traffic lights to turn right, (a set I go through every day) that the lady on the left had stopped and was probably going to change lanes, so I hesitated. Fortunately, she was looking in her mirror and tucked in behind me so I carried on and made a perfectly safe right turn - but the lights had just changed to red!
So I made a mistake, even though it was still safe. It was only the right turn arrow that had turned to red.
The point is therefore, as fungles and peja have pointed out, "a moment's inattention" is often all it takes, therefore, is it pure luck that there aren't MORE fatal accidents? I gather as at last night, there had been over 550 accidents during the holiday period - 6 deaths. Would you expect anything less, given:
a) the number of days of the holiday period so far b) the number of vehicles on the road c) the number of kilometres driven
I'm not on about recividist drunks, pot heads and morons, I am on about everyday 'normal' motorists.
Does it mean that if we are up in court for the first time with a clean history or accident free, that our history should be taken into account? It seems to me that when it comes to motoring, your past good behaviour rarely counts for anything - and that saddens me.
You can get official warnings and totally let off without punishment for criminal offences, but rarely for motoring offences.
Maybe any serving or ex-police officer would care to comment? Would you go to court and claim 'a moment's inattention' as a mitigating circumstance and expect some form of leniency?
Judges seem only too quick to allow dangerously drunk 20 year olds on a law breaking spree, putting lives at risk, (already with a bad history) an additional chance, but what about the rest of us?
peja,
Dec 31, 6:45am
Fair point, and it depends what the "moments inattention" was caused by. if its a text, then no dice. If it was something genuinely out of your control like say a wasp in the car, then absolutely
As you say, there will always be SOME accidents. But many are preventable, certainly the ones involving recidivist drink drivers very much are. And many of the inattention ones involving phones etc are only happening because the powers that be have not focused hard enough on that rather than speed. Nothing a $3-500 fine, confiscation of device and 40-50 demerits if you are caught texting etc on motorway wouldnt fix
fungles,
Dec 31, 7:35am
Thes are very good thoughts. For years, I always had the idea of something like say a rego discount or even a petrol voucher each year for those motorists not having any offences over that period. Everyone responds much better to reward rather than continual punishment. All the systems are in place to allow this, the police computer automagically sends out reminder notices, easily altered to also send out vouchers as well. Any revenue lost by doing this could easily be covered by further increasing say the rego cost for naughty motorists only? Unfortunately, there does appear to be a fiscal necessity to have and allow, perhaps even encourage a certain level of motoring crime, the system has to be paid for and maintained as in any business. The sheer number of highway patrol cars alone represent a considerable investment, as does the running costs. It would I think be an accountants nightmare.
andrewcg53,
Dec 31, 7:37am
68%
fungles,
Dec 31, 7:58am
In fact, here is a simple scenario. No demerits, 12 months free rego. After that, its $10 per demerit. ten demerits = $100 rego, 99 demerits = $990 rego. This actually allows for the bad drivers to subsidise the good and responsible. ie, user pays. Easily implimented, bugger all extra paperwork as the demerit tally is already held for each and every driver. As the demerits rise, it becomes increasingly difficult for bad drivers to afford to drive, and with no rego at all, they are prohibited from driving.
jantar,
Dec 31, 8:23am
Brilliant idea. So just set up a company to own all your vehicles and as a company cannot get demerits, only a driver, we never need to pay anymore reg, ever. Love it.
Now lets see you convince the politicians that its a good idea.
fungles,
Dec 31, 8:32am
This is the beauty of this message board, where so many people know more than me! I didnt realise this was the case, so yes, cancel my good idea, it will be abused. I also think speed cameras dont log demerits as well, but give me a chocolate fish for trying.
Hmmmm; don't think I'd really have a lot of difficulty in overtaking somebody in front of me going 25kmh. so in fact perhaps you need to ask what the drivers directly behind were thinking?
lookoutas,
Dec 31, 12:43pm
I scored better on the second one than the first. 19 compared to 13.
What isn't taken into consideration is total experience. When I sat my licence in 1965, there was no such thing as driver training. Hence I have never done any. although, we did driver training in the Army? Hey - change that to 22 or 16.
But total experience is important. I've heard weekend pilots spout-off coz they've done 200 hours, whereas I've flown with pilots who have done well over 20,000. Who would you rather fly with?
The same goes with drivers. Average Joe Blogs who does 40Km to work, and then goes for a Sunday drive, would be lucky to do 300Km/week. That's only 15K/year, plus a couple more for holidays, so most are lucky to do 20K/year.
What do I do now? 1.5Km to work 4 times - so I drive 6Km/day (if I don't walk) = 30Km/week. Let's say I do 6 trips to the paint shop/week @ 4.6Km = 27.6/week A couple of trips around town to deliver or collect cars = 15/week Weekend would probably be lucky to notch up an average of 50Km Total. 122.6Km/week x 50 weeks = 6130Km/year. Add say 8 trips away during the year @ 500/trip - that takes the total up to around 10K. There is no way I would reach 15K
A few years back, that was about 6 weeks worth of driving for me, and I know that a car felt much more part of me back then, than one does today.
It was very much the same when I was driving a commercial Jet Boat. When it came time for race day, many of the other competitors wondered why I wasn't off to the bog every 5 minutes like they were. Pretty simple as John Hore said "Do what ya do do well"
Therefore - much consideration should be weighted for total experience. Someone with a licence for 1 month could score quite well, whereas us old bugga's have lots of sins to catch us out.
pestri,
Dec 31, 1:14pm
Also scored better on the second. now about 20, but think I might be overating myself a bit. However on the experience front.
Tractors at 12, the Farmall Cub , then the Massey Harris, and later owned 4wd Kubota and others , Farm truck about the same time Morris Commercial. got my licence 1963 , Morry 8 the 1st car, God those old Pommy cars were crap. but drove back country roads. Tarata Whangamomona. even wound clothesline rope thru the spokes of the Morry as temporary chains to get out of the tight spots. Then on to the Falcons, Holdens Maximas etc. Bedford tipper ex County Council was my first truck. went anywhere.
Datsun 280Z ahem. nuff said Got my heavy traffic some time after I got my truck. testing officer said I drove it well, didn't like to tell him had been driving trucks since 12 or 13
Sat my PSL Drove Buses for the Govt. Also drove up Ruapehu for a couple of seasons, nothing like a road at 1600meters elevation that could and would change from being a doddle at 0600 going up to completely iced up coming down at 0630 as drawn broke. Rescue missions at 2030 hours in blackout blizzard conditions were quite exiting in the old ex Army Isuzu 4x4 bus, all chained up front and back. Won't do that now, eyesight wont let me judge whether the water in the gutters is running or not.
Have driven a camper in the UK, France, Germany Spain Italy etc. taken a Landcruiser to the top of Cape York with the boy along the Telegraph track and another through the Simpson Desert [x2] , the Gunbarrel Highway and the Canning Stock Route from Byron Bay to Steep point. and my old Surf along the Whangamomona Road. needed the chains again!
Scariest experience was on the M80 in 2012 between Stirling and Glasgow, torrential rain, just p***ing down, 2m visiblility driving a very capable VW Golf Tdi at 70- 80mph [that was the going rate] in 4 lanes of traffic all going for the doctor with faaaaar to little regard for spacing.
Now drive a wee Toyota Light Ace, a bigger Ducato Motor Home, and a new Mitsubishi Outlander, which I rate as one of the better vehicles I've owned.
Thats me.
socram,
Dec 31, 1:57pm
That is more like it! Scores I would have expected.
I don't do the annual mileage I once did (away for up to 3 months of the year - most of it without driving at all, or, several weeks in the UK covering a considerable mileage - often at above 110kph. ).
However, I still drive two or three or four different vehicles a week and find that these days, open road driving is mind numbingly boring. Whereas for many, many years, I used to 'go for a blast' on two wheels or four, probably driving a little quicker than I maybe I should, it was rarely over the speed limit on the UK's back-roads, as my bikes and cars weren't that fast anyway. A lot of fun pedalling a hot Mini quickly! Zero accidents.
With old age and a more comfortable financial position once the house was paid off, the modern cars are just so darned quick that it is far too easy to break the law (substantially) whilst no-where near the limits of the car (and no doubt larger motorbikes). The modern Cooper S is very fast, steers and stops exceptionally well and handles well. But I can only cruise - I can't drive it hard.
In that respect, I doubt that despite the years of experience, and still a consistent and fairly competent race driver, that I am as sharp as I used to be, mainly through the boredom. That is a worry, as it now needs extra reserves of concentration. I can no longer enjoy a 3 hour drive without stopping for a leg stretch, a coffee or other break. It is far more tiring than driving quickly and actually enjoying it. It has nothing to do with getting anywhere quicker, just in a far better state of mind.
lookoutas,
Dec 31, 5:55pm
Totally agree - concentration induces a good state of mind. Speed induces concentration. (To those who can handle it)
I remember as a young fulla scoring 86 in a Trade exam. Now I'm not boosting at all, but while proud of that result, the biggest piss-off was that I couldn't find out what I had got wrong. Which is indicative of the saying that we learn from our mistakes, and I couldn't learn FA, coz they wouldn't tell me!
With this in mind, here is what I didn't score on. First of all was the driver training, until I remembered the Army training. You can say I grasped a pretty long straw, but the Army says they are the best, and I knew not to question then, so apply it to now. (That took me from 19 to 22)
Ever since I saw the cops lift a bike off my brothers best mate at the age of 13, I have never wanted to ride a bike. So I don't have a licence. Rode the crap out of pushbikes until I bought my first car, but that's not recent. So no point there.
Don't speed? LMFAO. Probably should looze 200 points.
Amber lights? Went through a bloody red on boxing day. It was a right turn arrow, and a high truck in front blocked the lights on the opposite side from view. SIL sitting in RH jump seat could see them, and reminded me of what had happened. (The anti LHD brigade will light up now) No points there.
So there's the three I didn't score on, and I'm so good I didn't lose any.
Lucky on the drinking one - it was 5 years 9 months since I went overboard at an old mates 60th, and shouldn't have driven home - so I just scraped in there:-(
I gave myself a ping on that racing one, once I thought about the Jet Boat racing. That is one form of motor sport that requires a mega amount of seat to be sucked up and gripped between the arse cheeks.
socram,
Dec 31, 6:10pm
If you NORMALLY stop on amber, one hiccup is no big deal.
socram,
Dec 31, 6:16pm
Good to see scores around 20. I hope that acts as a bit of an endorsement and probably justifies my faith in some of the posters on here, whose opinions I generally respect anyway.
lookoutas,
Jan 1, 4:40am
But I don't!
lookoutas,
Jan 1, 5:32am
But on second thoughts, I do if there's room to do it without standing on the picks. The real question should be. "Do you speed up to beat the red when an amber is showing?"
Can I have half a point?
jantar,
Jan 1, 12:18pm
Not sure if I should allow myself 23 points or just 20. I have undertaken numerous advanced courses for motorcycling (I am a mentor), but none in a car. Still I had none of the negatives, so still reasonably happy.
lookoutas,
Jan 1, 3:57pm
I'm quite happy to get none, coz like jantar above, I probably pushed the limits on the driver training one. But then, when I renewed my licence years ago, I was asked if I had a bike licence and I said no. The person behind the counter said if I had'a said yes it would've been ticked on my new licence. So that would be one more peep for me that was BS.
Didn't make that mistake when it came to class 4. Then they admitted that they were giving class 4 to anyone who'd had class 2 for a period of time.
lookoutas,
Apr 5, 8:31pm
Come-on - what'd ya miss out on?
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