Hi we bought a nz new mercedes Benz 2005 from a dealer. Also bought insurance all up about 17 grand. We have had the van for about 15 months but have had so many things go wrong about 8 at 350 excess each time. We have six children so can't just borrow a car each time work needs to be done and just can't afford the access all the time help
rpvr,
Aug 29, 5:53am
I've often wondered about this aspect myself - how mechanical insurance ties in with dealer liability under the CGA. I think you should have gone back to the dealer first.
joanie04,
Aug 29, 6:39pm
When I had an issue with my car within three months of purchase (second hand) the first thing the dealer said was, you should have taken out the insurance I offered. Quickly followed by the vehicle is nearly 13 years old and then followed by don't take it to a franchise workshop they will say they have to replace everything even if not needed. It was a timing chain issue and even the local wrecker (who I do a bit of book work for) said exactly the same as the workshop, my brother (a mechanic for over 30 years) and my father (also a mechanic for more years than the dealer has been alive) all said the same. Replace it will you're in there. I didn't quite go about it the right way and after all the good and not so good advise from here I got the issue fixed at my cost. Thankfully just over 2 years and 30,000 kms I have had no further issues.
tgray,
Aug 29, 6:55pm
The dealer got off lightly it seems.
franc123,
Aug 29, 6:56pm
The disturbing thing is that dealers actively imply that chain drive engines will somehow be trouble and expense free as opposed to those with belts, which is only a partially true statement at best, they conveniently gloss over the stretch issues that plague certain engines and resulting engine management problems because of it that can amount to several times the cost of an average timing belt replacement. Its risky to swallow mechanical advice from people with clean fingernails, its that simple, all they're interested in is the cheapest way to get you off their case.
bumfacingdown,
Aug 29, 7:19pm
Its what dealers try their best to do once they have your money (generalisation I know but perception is everything)
kazbanz,
Aug 30, 7:58am
Actually franc You are doing EXACTLY what you imply that car dealers do. Tarring every car that has a camchain with exactly the same brush. NOT FOR A SECOND am I or will I imply that every camchain engine is a godsend. Some are definitely rubbish. But by far the majority are a much better design and longer lasting than the cam belt engine they replace. The other thing is that other than in very high performance engines I have NEVER heard of a cam chain actually failing. Yep they stretch. But unlike a cambelt that does fail causing thousands in damage. A camchain stretches till it rattles and yep can cause timeing issues. but hundreds not thousands to repair. So saying a car has a camchain I genuinely feel in MOST cases is a major advantage.
wayned,
Aug 30, 8:06am
I have seen a few snapped cam chains, in 1970's 80's cars, Datsun L20 and the likes, 20+ years old on original tensioner (or what is left of). Sold replacements for SR20 etc, but never because broken, just noisy or stretched and timing affected.
kazbanz,
Aug 30, 8:18am
Actually sorry --Yep I agree. The OLD cars with camchains but not modern chains breaking.
budgel,
Aug 30, 8:18am
In my albeit limited experience with camchains it is often the tensioner system that fails rather than the chains. The effect on the consumer is the same in that they will still have a hefty bill, though usually at a lot more miles than when a cambelt change would have been necessary.
franc123,
Aug 30, 8:19am
Wrong Kaz I said SOME engines, not all. Repair costs are definitely higher on chains, especially if sprocket or excess guide wear occurred, its possible for a full replacement to cost 2000-2500 depending on what work is needed, whereas belt drive systems are rarely over a grand. Worse, work needed to correct chain stretch isn't unheard of at as little as 90-120 thou kms. The costs of individual parts can be very high if a comprehensive aftermarket kit isn't available, but this course of action isn't always recommended if its not from a recognised good quality component supplier. IMO its unacceptable for dealers to blanket imply that chain drive engines will be worry and expense free, it may not necessarily be the case. In fact its weird that its even mentioned at all, cambelt changes are merely a component of overall vehicle maintenance, albeit one of the more expensive ones.
kazbanz,
Aug 30, 8:46am
Franc -have a read over what you have written-even over the past few months.The IMPLICATION you are making is that ALL chain drive engines are problematic. or in fairness at the very least you imply that MOST chain drive engines are problematic. The truth of the matter is exactly the opposite. Cam chain related issues are the exception rather than the norm. Does it mean you don't need to maintain chain drive engines. Heck NO. if anything the very fact you have a chain reliant on being in a clean oil bath means clean oil is more needed. Adding to that. cam belt PROBLEMS are usually not under a grand to fix. In most cases the engine is toast or at least its uneconomical to repair and you need to replace the engine. The only time a camchain is thought about is if its worn to its limit and yep can cost a couple of grand to fix properly. But its unlikely to have destroyed the engine. Honestly dude its the "all tarred with the same brush" implication that Im talking about not for a second saying that some aren't a stupid design.
extrayda,
Aug 30, 9:36am
I prefer chains. I DID have one break on a newly rebuilt 460 cu Ford V8. Fortunately at the builders while breaking the motor in. No damage, new chain. I have also had a cambelt break on a Corona at something around 90,000ks - no damage, wasn't an interference engine. And had one break in an 80's Cortina again no damage. I did 100,000ks in my Cefiro with a chain (191,000ks total) with no sign of chain stretch or damage or rattle ever. Replaced the belt on a 99 Accord, that was about $1400 I think, as they do the belt 'and while you are in there' the water pump and anything else back there. Makes sense to do at the same time, but you are replacing things which are still serviceable purely due to the inconvenience of having to service them later. I would almost always buy a chain engine over a belt, but in saying that if I wanted a particular car, it having a belt wouldn't stop me. I don't understand why on modern cars we seem to be constantly told that water pumps, tensioners and things need replacing at what I consider quite low miles. Is it that modern components are less well made? Or made to be much lighter, and therefore less durable?
joanie04,
Aug 30, 11:46am
The biggest problem was a family member purchased the car on my behalf and delivered it to me. The car was purchased in the Waikato. I live in the Far North. The other problem was the mere male was driving the car when the engine check light came on and didn't tell for at least 10 days. By this time the fault had dropped off the system. It was comprehensively checked over on at least three occasions to by 100% sure what the problem was. The chain was definitely stretched I saw it. There was no service history with the car either but I had it serviced as soon as I took possession. I have now figured out who the dealer's family is and lets just say I knew his late father very well and used to play darts and pool with and against him every Tuesday at the local pub many years ago. My problem was they had an inkling there may be an issue with the car because of something mentioned in passing to my father. But the dealer was so defensive and that got my back up so I ended up being the same. At the end of the day I was happy to meet him half way and negotiate but that didn't happen. I have since found out that the franchise workshop charged me a lot less than someone else was quoted for the same work on the same or very similar car at another franchise workshop in the Waikato area.
budgel,
Aug 30, 11:54am
Hell, how is it the dealer's responsibility if it was driven for 10 days with a check engine light showing?
kazbanz,
Aug 30, 12:09pm
joanie-I have to ask--How much did it end up costing to replace the cam chain and sensors in your Nissan.?
kazbanz,
Aug 30, 12:14pm
hey franc--If you are still in "here" Serious question for you. With the Nissan camchains why can't you just remove/back off the tensioner,split the old chain, back off the cams and feed the new chain in round the crank and up to the cams then rivlink it --ie same as with a bike camchain. My mental image must be mucked up because I can't see what the issue would be and why it would be so costly to do.
joanie04,
Aug 30, 12:31pm
Hi Kazbanz the total cost was$1855.50. As per the invoice:
Renew timing chain. Removed all belts, covers and panels. Removed and replaced timing, chain, guides, tensioner and seals, and refitted. Removed exhaust studs and replaced as were badly damaged. Replace coolant and bled cooling system. Carried out diagnostic scan. Road tested.
Of that price $600 plus GST was labour. I think is was slightly less than the original quote.
franc123,
Aug 30, 12:36pm
So, are your industry peers going to say to potential clients, "This has a chain drive engine, this particular one has a stupid under engineered system that mustn't have dirty oil in it, its going to stretch and log cam angle sensor codes eventually, the fix may involve complete overhaul of the timing system surprisingly low km and cost twice as much as a cambelt replacement, but its OK as its not likely to break and cost you even more, so hope like hell what I'm selling you has been maintained well in the past as I can't prove it has been? Or you could buy this other one that has a belt, we will fit a new COMPLETE belt kit to it now at our expense and you genuinely won't have to worry about it for the next several years you own it? Thought not. The only issue I have is that the benefits of having chains are being overstated and being used as a marketing tool when it may not be of benefit to have one instead of a belt.
joanie04,
Aug 30, 1:20pm
The check light came on and went off on a trip from Awanui to Kerikeri, both on the way there and back. The mere male in his "wisdom" did not think it was serious and forgot to say anything. The man should not even own a bicycle he is that mechanically challenged at times. Part of his reasoning was that we had a Holden Astra that the light kept coming on, and no-one could pinpoint the fault. This car we had for about two years, I got an Auto Electrician who knows his stuff to check the Astra out. Couldn't pinpoint anything specific either but advised me to get rid of it quick. Well within two to three weeks it did the rings on number one piston. Sold it to the wrecker I work for on Saturday mornings lol.
kazbanz,
Aug 30, 1:34pm
Franc-I can't speak for other dealers. I do my darned best though not to stock cars that are likely to cause mechanical issues. In a general sense yes I do tell customers about the mechanical issues Im aware of with the various vehicles. stuff like "hey the 1800cc and 1500cc bluebird sylphy are good solid reliable models" But the 2.0l Neo has issues with cam chain stretch." Or -"sorry we won't stock 02-07 Honda Fit autos because the auto gives problems" Or "We don't stock Toyota Opa/Isis/Wish 2.0l because we are not comfortable with the D4 motor". I like to sleep at night and selling cars with known mechanical issues I'm not happy doing.
rpvr,
Aug 30, 2:38pm
I had a dealer once tell me that the camchain on the vehicle I was looking at would be trouble free, so I asked if I bought the vehicle he could write a statement to this effect into the agreement. Never seen anyone back off so fast. I didn't buy the car. If I hadn't felt he was trying to BS me I may well have.
kazbanz,
Aug 31, 12:15pm
What an idiot. How can you say ANYTHING with wings or wheels will run trouble free?
rpvr,
Aug 31, 7:03pm
"Camchain very good, trouble free, not like cambelt, forget about, last as long as engine." I won't mention ethnicity as I don't want to be labelled a racist.
bumfacingdown,
Aug 31, 7:12pm
Maybe you should go shopping kaz, you may be surprised at what some salesmen are prepared to say to get a sale, not all of it is true either
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