Hey just a question for the mechanically minded people out there. Took the old 96 Celica St202 in for a Wof to VTNZ the other day and it failed on the right hand front lower control arm bush. Guy who tested it just said I need to get the bush replaced so I went to the closest mechanic (new to town) the guy there turned the wheel and poked his head around for all of a second and said yep he can do it but the whole control arm will need to be replaced. Ive been quoted $550 excluding labor. Obviously being a car from the mid 90s it doesn't have too much life left in it. My thoughts are a bush can just be replaced without needing a whole new control arm? am I right?
kazbanz,
Feb 5, 7:55am
control arm bush can be replaced --why did mechanic say the whole control arm needs replacing?
welshman2,
Feb 5, 8:00am
Thought so. I have no idea, he didn't even really inspect it he literally just poked his head around the front wheel, went back into his office and wrote out a quote for the whole control arm. Maybe he just doesn't want the business but ill go and talk to some other garages. Thanks for your help
toyboy3,
Feb 5, 8:09am
Ring repco and find out if there is a bush available ,or whether one needs a complete arm also ring toyota .
welshman2,
Feb 5, 9:23am
Just took it into another mechanic who actually took the time to jack it up and take a proper look. He had a ring around his suppliers and quoted me $140 inc labor for the whole job and that's with a replacement non genuine arm. Pays to shop around huh.
mad_signtist,
Feb 5, 9:53am
Far out that's unreal!
welshman2,
Feb 5, 10:24am
To be fair on the original Mechanic they were quoting a genuine Toyota part vs a non genuine with the second mechanic. On an almost 20 year old car tho I'm obviously not too concerned about that.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 5, 1:58pm
Be VERY careful with a non genuine arm. I would actually ask for the name of the aftermarket manufacturer. There are some absolutely appalling nasty Chinese knock offs being peddled by some major NZ suppliers who should know better.
I have a couple of new ones sitting down stairs that I refused to fit as the Chinese captive nut shared off at about half the factory recommended torque. This is not at all uncommon.
My advice is, if it's a well known aftermarket brand (Febi, Quientin Hazel etc) then you should be just fine. But if it's some sort of no name brand, don't trust your life on it, pay the extra.
Given the price you have been quoted for the total job, I am quite concerned that you are being offered one of these silent killers. Remember, if the ball joint fails on the road, there is a good chance you're dead.
gmphil,
Feb 5, 2:28pm
sounds right ofvisley by sounds u cant replace just bush ! had to do top arms in a granvia van same thing hole arm Toyota wanted 800 plus bnt did them 250 incl that's each
welshman2,
Feb 5, 2:36pm
Cheers, i'll ask him what brand it is but I'm not concerned by the mechanic. It was the VTNZ who ended up giving me his business card after I went back for clarification on the fault, they said they had been recommending people see him for years. I'd hope if he was passing on dodgy parts it would have come to light by now. Anyway better safe than sorry.
intrade,
Feb 5, 2:42pm
did you find out if the whole arm needs replacing? or if the bush can be done. if it is the rubber insert like on camry then they can be replaced i done one payd 45$ to the local suspension guy to press it in. and the part i got from partsmaster who probably got it from the mount-shop
welshman2,
Feb 5, 2:52pm
The bush is replaceable, the second mechanic confirmed that but he said with the added labor it might not be worth it if he can get the whole arm. He never actually said if the Arm was new or used, either way the cost difference is massive.
welshman2,
Feb 5, 2:56pm
There is nothing wrong with the arm, the second mechanic just confirmed what VTNZ said, bush was cracked. Might be worth looking into just replacing the bushing if what thejazzpianoma says about dodgy parts from china is true. Thanks for the advice.
jmma,
Feb 5, 3:05pm
I would trust the mechanic before I would trust someone who makes pies for a living, just saying (o:
llortmt,
Feb 5, 3:24pm
Best put down of the class clown so far this year! LOL
llortmt,
Feb 5, 3:29pm
Mount Shop don't list a bush for ST202 and Partmaster dont deal with the Mount Shop anymore. Even if you could get a bush its never going to be cheaper than the price the OP has for a complete arm fitted.
franc123,
Feb 5, 3:46pm
Did they REALLY? That's very interesting information considering that VTNZ are supposed to be independent and impartial. They should not be seen to be creating work for anyone in particular, with the possible exception of LVV or repair certifiers.
intrade,
Feb 5, 3:54pm
llortmt ok so it dont seems to be the same round flex bush as you have em on camry and caldinas then
kazbanz,
Feb 5, 4:07pm
IF its the bush I THINK it is then your most inexpensive option may have been to go to a Toyota workshop.There are some jobs --and that's one of them where having the exact tool for the removal job is the secret. Happy to be proven wrong but based on personal experience with a similar vehicle recently
kazbanz,
Feb 5, 4:10pm
Don't they? How up to date is your book?--hey not having a go mate and I didn't go as far as you to check the bush number
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 5, 9:10pm
While he should have noticed some nuts stripping if he has used a few, he may not necessarily be aware how crud the parts are. When you are ordering your parts from a major NZ supplier, just as you assume your recommended mechanic is doing the right thing, that mechanic will likely assume the supplier is doing the right thing.
Also, I agree about what was said regarding fitting the bushes, often they are an annoying and time consuming job cutting them out and pushing fresh ones in (sometimes they don't want to push out). Then, you are still left with a worn ball joint that is not replaceable so may need to go back and replace the whole arm next WOF anyway.
Feel free to come back with the brand name if you don't recognise it, some good aftermarket brands do have funny names. I would also ask him to keep the box/bag it comes in for you or otherwise a copy of his invoice for the part (he can cross out his prices, you just want the band and supplier).
The nasty arms I have didn't appear to come in any packaging at all BTW. So that could be a sign in itself. Also no brand markings stamped in the castings etc. I am rating the chances of this being one of these nasty parts quite highly given the total price. While the genuine part price you were given was high (Quite a bit more than the fancy genuine ones I bought for my Alfa recently for example), the part plus labour from the second place is really really cheap, and this is typical of those parts which are often only a fifth of the price of a reasonable quality part. If you stop and think about it, the mechanic must only be paying $50 or so for the part to do that price, $50 for a heavy cast arm with two bushes and a ball joint, does that not sound way to cheap to you? Think about what the manufacturer must produce it for to get it all the way to the NZ mechanic providing several lots of shipping and supplier mark up along the way.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 5, 9:14pm
Does your VTNZ not sell mini billboards for repairers along it's walls? The "impartial" thing in my opinion is just a sales gimmick, they are just there to make a buck, not provide a public service.
rbd,
Feb 5, 9:24pm
Is your ST202 superstrut front suspension or mcpherson strut?
Are you getting clonking from the front when driving slow over undulations?
Superstrut arms can be rebuilt by a number of specialists. Otherwise the parts need replacing and yes they are not cheap. A good system but not the most durable.
Google ST205 superstrut and I'm sure you will find more info.
phillip.weston,
Feb 6, 12:56am
I was just going to come here to post this, you're bang on and I'm surprised no one else brought this up earlier.
If it's Super-strut, then $$$ as whole arms do need to be replaced and best to go genuine. If non Super-Strut then I would say a single bush replacement is fine or even just fit a whole replacement arm either used from a wrecker or find an aftermarket one.
gtrb26,
Feb 6, 7:46am
Have found on the 4wd that bushes from Repco or The Mount Shop didn't even last 6 months before the center would come apart, where genuine Toyota and Nissan bushes lasted years. The price difference was about $15 each bush, but the hassle of replacing them every year makes them cheaper.
The tie rods I used from Repco were junk.
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