Limit to be placed on time at charging stations.

Watch out for power poles, they are everywhere and many are located right next to roads.

Same could be said of sports motorcycles, comparatively small petrol tanks so always hogging the petrol pumps.

We are still in the early adopter phase.

Frankly commercial traveler's who regularly travel in excess of 450km in a day would be better served with something like a camry hybrid (range in excess of 1000km) than an EV.

That said, there are some commercial travelers already using EV's. Traveling Warehouse group staff would be one example in kona's. Between having 230V, 32A chargers at most stores & the public DC fast charge network they seem to cope OK.

With regards to recreational road trip's / touring. Plenty of people do these in EV's. Obviously in the likes of a 2011 Nissan Leaf (cira 100km range), you cover a lot less ground (or take more time) than in a petrol car. So you end up seeing places that would normally be skipped over.

Sounds like in a 400km+ range car (Leaf e+, kona, e-nero, Tesla, etc), the road trip touring experience isn't that different to in a petrol car. Pick places to stay that offer 230v 32A charging and you will start with 100% charge each morning. If you want to travel more than your cars range in a day, pick out a fast charger somewhere where it would be nice to spend an hour having a relaxed lunch. That's enough to add another 300+ km/s of range.

Regardless of the vehicle, I tend to plan my road trips so that I spend under 4 hours a day driving, as to leave time for activities. An 8 hour driving day is not my idea or recreation.

For a holiday, typically people will stay several days based at the same place. This means that even a domestic wall socket will have your car fully charged for the return trip. Assuming that one is willing to break the trip up to spend an hour at a fast charger while they have lunch, the effective range of a Kona in a day is something like 750km. Most people in NZ tend to holiday under this distance from home (or fly, or take more than one day to travel). But those who live in Invercargill and holiday in nelosn, or live in Wellington and holiday in Kaitaia might be served better with a non electric car.

Or course the big issue is 400km+ range EV's are expensive, and towing saps range.

Phew.
You certainly aren’t a man of few words.
But what you say is logical enough.

Couldn't agree more.

One of the key points is "We are still in the early adopter phase."
Technologies are seeing increasingly rapid uptake as demonstrated by the gradient of the lines for tablets, smartphones and cellphones in the graph here: https://ourworldindata.org/technology-adoption
Also worth noting the decline in landline phone usage since ~2000. Seems that the cellphone vs. landline situation could very much parallel EVs vs. ICEs over the next decade.

No thought whatsoever to the possibly that more chargers might get installed?
Supply meeting demand?

For all of 5 minutes.

Arguing with people who complain about EV charging times, that "it's not cheaper", range and so forth, is pretty pointless.

These people are not changing their minds, even if you prove to them how all these things they cite are not actual problems or at least are not problems for the vast majority of users, they will still find something that they can cling to.

They simply don't want EV and don't want other people to want EV either. I don't really understand why.

End of the day, pure EV are increasing in numbers, rapidly. In about 20, 30 years max the question will not be "are there any EV chargers around here yet?" but instead "are there any petrol stations around here left?"

Thats a total load of BS.Never been delayed my a Motor Bike filling with gas in fact i,ve never seen a Bike at a gas station for a long long time probably because even the bigger ones are more economical than one of your beloved EV,s

With regards to to those with no ability to charge at home (for example no off street parking, or no connection to the national gird), I wouldn't recommend an EV, (unless they have access to charging at work).

Being able to charge cheaply and conveniently at home while you sleep (or at your workplace while you work) is basically required for EV ownership to be a positive experience. Yes some people do depend solely on public charging, but to do so is very time consuming, and is expensive too unless using the free lines company funded chargers.



Other than the free lines company chargers in urban area's which get clogged by local's that could easily charge at home, NZ's fast chargers don't have a significant congestion issue's (there were a couple of hotspots, but I think more chargers have got rolled out near those area's).

Vector in Auckland has said they have plans to roll out billing with their chargers (I think are developing their own billing system rather than using the normal charge.net.nz one so this is taking some time). As an EV owner I support this. It is not really that fair that other line company customer's cross subsidies a service as expensive to provide as DC fast charging. Also it will avoid the current situation where the free lines company chargers undercut other commercial charging operators. Also any fee higher than domestic power costs will see the vast majority of local's opt to charge at home instead, saving them time and freeing up the station for those who actually need to fast charge.

I don't really get people using the free chargers instead of charging at home.

On a 50kW charger, my leaf can consumer roughly 11kWh in 25mins. At my domestic rate of 16.5c/kWh, this works out as $1.82 in power. I would have to value my time at less than $4.36/hour for it to make sense to wait at a fast charger when I could instead charge at home. Guess people just love getting something for free. This doesn't seem to be unique to Leaf's (but there are far more leaf's than any other EV in NZ). Not unusual to see $100k+ etron's charging at free fast chargers in locations popular with local's. They suck a bit more power than my leaf, but still we are talking well under $5 power in 30mins.

Regarding old Leaf's vs other EV's. The old leaf's spend more money on fast charging than longer range EV's. With a 450km kona, one would only opt to pay for fast charging if they are going further than that. A rare event for most people.

Our fast charge network is largely set up for older leaf's with 60 - 80km typical charger spacing. An old leaf will need to stop at each one, and in the rare event it is occupied, wait for it as they don't have enough range to make the next one. Something like a Kona with a 450km range could easily plan to charge one charger prior to when they actually need to. In the even the charger is occupied or out of order, they could simply skip it and drive to the next one.

Should also note that new generation 300kW hyper-chargers have three cords each, and are being installed in pairs. Cars capable of charge rates in excess of 50kW (most cars with 400km+ range are) will be targeting these ones where available (bombay south of Auckland currently, taupo next).

Personally we don't take the leaf anywhere that is going to need more than a single fast charge. But we do have the luxury of another car in the household (and a larger, more powerful, more comfortable one at that). I admire those that are far more enthusiastic about their EV ownership than me.

So in other words my comment holds as much sway as the one I was quoting, as I've never been delayed at a charging station by another Leaf. Thanks for your confirmation.

That's why I'm not going to buy another petrol car now, will just nurse my current one along for another 15 or so years, we usually ride the cargo bike anyway so the car hardly gets used.

I figure by the time the current car needs replacing, a new technology will be around.

And in 20-30 years the EV,s that are are on sale /available now will be recycled and replaced with vehicles that are quicker to charge,have greater range but will have RUC charges so the days of the free loaders will be a distant memory .

We are in the same situation. Our 20 year old Commodore would have been traded in on something newer well before now if we weren't holding out for an EV with 'out of province' range capability to become affordable. In the meantime we'll consider swapping out the battery in our Leaf to maintain its practicality.

This is precisely the 'Osborne effect' in practice as we shun purchasing now in favour of coming technological improvements. I believe it is genuinely being felt by the auto traders as ICE sales decline.

While the 'free loaders' in terms of ICE vehicle emission responsibility will have been regulated and taxed out of existence.

You win a prize for that . I,ve never seen a Leaf where I go for petrolThe places that provide charging for Leafs are nowhere near where other vehicles refuel but.Hidden around a corner where they dont block accessways.

And the present Free Loaders with EV,s will have to pay their share,Cant wait for the Calls to pitying Heaven are cast" when massive RUC,s come in for EVs to make up for the lack of revenue from the ICE cars.

RUCs for EVs, when they eventually come, will be no more than and probably cheaper than for ICEs. I can't see there being any reason to complain at that point.

you mean most who have drive on or garage which is a very small minority in most citys otherwise i assume streets will be clogged up at night with electric leads all over footpaths

That situation is already being addressed in the UK, where roadside home parking is the norm, by modifying streetlights to EV chargers: https://www.fleeteurope.com/en/new-energies/europe/analysis/1300-street-lights-converted-ev-chargers-london?a=JMA06&t%5B0%5D=Siemens&t%5B1%5D=Ubitricity&t%5B2%5D=electric%20vehicle&t%5B3%5D=charging%20infrastructure&t%5B4%5D=London&curl=1
Another option would be contactless induction charging spaces much like a cellphone charging pad. No cables that way. https://www.zvei.org/en/subjects/mobility/contactless-to-the-socket-inductive-charging-of-electric-cars This also suits autonomous Uber style vehicles being able to charge between fares.

they say all sorts of option will be available in the future like inductive charging technology which is supposed to be a bridge into the future. what about now. as for all this extra power greenies wont allow anymore hydro stations to be built so where is all this power coming from. oh i know gas fired power

No. Look above you. "In a single hour, the amount of power from the sun that strikes the Earth is more than the entire world consumes in an year." https://www.businessinsider.com.au/this-is-the-potential-of-solar-power-2015-9?r=US&IR=T

saved

But for very short times so ‘always hogging the petrol pumps’ isn’t really true.

Should note at least an old Nissan Leaf will be done charging within 30mins.

Something like an audi e-tron 55, with its 95kWh battery can take 70mins to charge from 20%-80% on a 50kW charger. Charging from 0% to 100% (very rare) takes nearly 2 hours on a 50kW charger.

I don't think either are hogging the charging station, charging is what they exist for. (assuming they comply with time limits if any). That said if I arrived at a location with only a single fast charger (and no time limit), I would much rather there was a leaf occupying the bay than a e-tron.