Ah. We are still on the third generation highlander here, and the hybrid version of the highlander has not been sold here yet.
When the 4th gen highlander turns up here, Toyota NZ are only going to offer hybrid version. Both hybrid and V6 versions are offered offshore.
Not sure why you are concerned about weight. Hybrid version is only 66kg more kerb weight on the 4th gen for matching trim grade. Small fry for a SUV that weighs in at roughly 2000kg empty.
Room for batteries is unlikely to be anything to do with cylinder configuration. Traction battery is located under 2nd row seats, not in the engine bay.
Fuel savings are substantial on the hybrid, especially with NZ fuel prices 6.7L/100km vs 9.8L/100k.
Traction battery pack is a 1.6kWh Ni-MH, so the same chemistry that goes into the ridehail Prius that do 1000+km a week on contested city roads.
As I said prior, Toyota Ni-MH battery packs (excl 1st gen prius) generally last the life of the vehicle. Mine is past 200,000km and still going fine. But if they do need replaced refurbished or aftermarket battery packs are available.
My brother has a Toyota Highlander, the fuel economy is shithouse.
ascotbks,
Jan 26, 8:29pm
you say 'Room for batteries is unlikely to be anything to do with cylinder configuration' have a look at photos of hybrid. no way a v6 would fit https://www.google.com/search?
if hes worried there are still minis available. if you want a big powerful vehicle with comfort extra features airbags all round and other plenty of other features its hard to beat a highlander for driving and price even though its costs a bit more to run
s_nz,
Jan 26, 10:36pm
Unlikely the driver of a highlander is cross shopping mini's.
Anyway with 4th gen hybrid highlander, one can have the best of both worlds. 6.7L/100km rated economy in a large 180kW 7 seater SUV packed with comfort & safety features.
Its a little down on power on the outgoing 3rd gen highlander hybrid (218kW, 8.3L/100km), but gets heaps better economy.
Given something like 80% of new Rav4 buyers are opting for the hybrid version, i'm not surprised Toyota NZ are only bringing in the hybrid highlander when they move to the latest generation.
ascotbks,
Jan 27, 12:24am
im very suprised seeing as aussie is offering both versions. i have been waiting for new model for a year expecting V6 to be offered and asked toyota a few months back. thats when i was informed they were not bringing out the V6. im sure the technology from toyota is excellent and maybe in 10 years os so i may consider it but at present any problems and im sure the only place to fix it is a toyota dealer. most local garages probably dont have the expertise and toyota service are so over the top in pricing im put off and am looking at similar type vehicles maybe Kia or may just keep my present 2017 model and do what your done and just keep driving. by the way. reason for 4 cyclinder is the need for room to fit an electric motor under bonnet
alowishes,
Jan 27, 12:27am
How much fuel could you buy with the extra cost of a EV/hybrid version of a vehicle?
s_nz,
Jan 27, 1:15am
If we take the Rav4 hybrid (which NZ prices are known as it is released here), the price premium of the hybrid (in GLX AWD trim) is $3000.
Combined economy of the GLX Hybrid AWD is 4.8L/100km combines, Vs 7.0L/100km on the GLX AWD.
at $2/L petrol, and rated consumption, payback is 68,200km. Will be a bit short if one does mostly urban running, and a bit longer if one does mostly extra-urban running. Still for typical use payback is under 5 years.
The hybrid has a little more power on the rav4, and the tank size is the same so the hybrid will have a lot longer range.
[edit] - the non hybrid 4th gen highlander isn't going to be offered here, so we won't be able to do a comparison, but if you wanted to you could dig out USA prices and do a comparison based on them.
harm_less,
Jan 27, 1:26am
The table that is displayed at around 6:20 on this video is a good example of the cost of ownership savings enjoyed by EV owners, even if the video is little more than light entertainment otherwise. But put another electric truck on the 'incoming list'. https://youtu.be/uOoXCAWspHE
tygertung,
Jan 27, 1:45am
My brother must have an old version of the highlander as it seems to use over 12 litres per 100 km.
ascotbks,
Jan 27, 2:04am
depends on how long before battery pack has to be replaced and of course cost of battery pack. someone here says $4000 each but not really comparing apples however eventually cost will come down then its a matter of waiting to see how long before road user charges are introduced and anyway for long range driving it hardly matters, toyota engineering re petrol and deisel vehicles is well proven but who knows with hybrid version electric motor and rest of moving parts
s_nz,
Jan 27, 3:59am
For most private use toyota / lexus hybrid batteries last the life of the vehicle. Mine is at 202,000 and still going strong. These arn't like the older Nissan leaf's where rapid battery degradation is well known.
Non plug in hybrids pay RUC's in their petrol tax, so no changes planned.
Plug in cars currently are scheduled to have RUC's added on the first day of 2022.
Toyota hybrids (especially Prius) are also well proven and have a reputation for reliability. There is a Prius with over 500,000km on it for sale on trademe (but apparently that one need one battery cell replaced).
ascotbks,
Jan 27, 4:26am
not sure if your a spokesman for toyota but guess we will just have to wait and see if sales take off. maybe corporate will as everything is tax deductible. public ?
harm_less,
Jan 27, 6:06am
That planning was reliant on the national EV fleet reaching 64,000 as I remember. We're falling a little short of that trajectory at present so the RUC introduction may be delayed as a result, unless incentives catch us up as the year progresses. https://www.transport.govt.nz/statistics-and-insights/fleet-statistics/monthly-ev-statistics/ Some interesting regional statistics in that link.
s_nz,
Jan 27, 6:08am
I'm not a toyota spokes-person, but I do recognize their non plug in hybrid technology is regarded as the best available.
I am quite willing to criticise Toyota where they deserve it:
- Unintended acceleration saga. - DPF issues on hilux, fortuner etc. (and associated denial of issue) - Worsening reliability than toyotas of past years. - Bland styling - High prices generally. - Not having the Landcruser 70's front and rear track match. - Not offering any pure electric models in our market.
Regarding the boom in popularity of Toyota hybrids, don't really need to wait, current stats show very strong hybrid sales from Toyota.
Year to date Aug 2020, 70% of rav4 sales were for the hybrid version. For all passenger vehicles, and the same date range 56% of toyota's sales were hybrids. Note passenger vehicles excludes vans and utes.
You repeatedly posted about how bad the Toyota Hybrid version would be; much heavier, expensive battery that would need to be replaced, untried tech that you would wait and see in a few years etc.
Nobody is making you buy a hybrid, but clearly many of points you raised are just not right. Total weight is actually only 60 something Kg. and that weight will be down low on what is a heavy vehicle. Look around at the large numbers of Hybrid Ubers Taxis etc. many doing hundreds of thousands of km. Even if you have to replace the battery at some stage, they are not that expensive compared with the cost of petrol saved. Private buyers like myself have snapped up cars like the little Aqua hybrid in large numbers.
Personally not trying to be a Toyota salesman, but think over 20 years after the Prius came to market, it's just not reasonable to claim is new or untried tech. At this point we can safely say that Hybrids work as advertised; reduce fuel burn significantly with little to no drawbacks. Given the popularity of Toyota hybrids and increasing numbers of models from Honda, Suzuki and others, not unreasonable to think most non EVs will have some form of Hybrid tech, even if just mild stop/start types
ascotbks,
Jan 27, 9:16pm
before you jump on your bike and pedal to work just a couple of facts. i was talking about the highlander not some small around town drive to beach commuter car. the weight of the highlander hybrid is heavier and savings overall are minuscules however im happy that people who want to buy a hybrid or even an electric car can if they want to. my beef is that i cant buy a petrol highlander as toyota have decided they are not being sold in nz but are sold in aussie.
ascotbks,
Jan 27, 9:23pm
you should check out this article from your boss the firm’s president, Akio Toyoda decrying electric vehicles and eventual shortage of power
maybe hydrogen-powered car is the future of motoring
According to Toyoda, the projected price of supporting a fully electric vehicle fleet in Japan would be between ¥14 trillion and ¥37 trillion in infrastructure. He added that if Japan had to produce energy for a fully electric fleet, it would run out of electricity in the summer.
tygertung,
Jan 27, 9:27pm
Yes, so just jump on your bike and ride to work, will use no electricity if it is a normal bike, or a tiny amount if it is an e-bike. Problem solved and easy for the parking.
harm_less,
Jan 27, 10:01pm
Dead hyperlink. If there is insufficient electricity to power EVs where do you propose sourcing the energy to produce the hydrogen, if that is your favoured alternative to electricity?
ascotbks,
Jan 27, 10:22pm
i realise your boss probably told you to ask this question as he prefers hybrids and personally i dont care but easy answer. hydrogen can be produced from the sun and stored and anyway if you read correctly instead of trying to find something to disagree with i did say 'maybe hydrogen-powered car is the future of motoring' but maybe not
harm_less,
Jan 27, 10:38pm
So can electricity but with less steps in the process so more efficiently.
Did you read my responses? Yes the 4th gen highlander hybrid is heavier, but only by 60kg, largely immaterial on a vehicle that weights 2000kg empty. In the USA based on the LE spec, the hybrid version has a USD1400 price premium. As a rough proxy, double US car pricing to get NZ pricing. As such expect a price premium of around $2800 here (if the non hybrid was to be offered that is). Fuel cost savings will be substantial (hybrid is rated at 3.1L/100km less than the non hybrid on the combine cycle. Payback on a $2800 premium with $2/L petrol would be just 45,000km.
If you really don't want the hybrid, You can could consider picking up one of the last 3rd gen cars when they go runout in the middle of this year, consider another brand (I here the CX-9 is very good, and a new kia Sorento was just released), or wait for a inevitable 4th gen v6 highlander to turn up here from Aussie with repaired hail damage or similar.
Sadly NZ is a small market, so can't support as many vehicle options as larger markets.
Also in the background is that NZ is likely to get fleet average emission standards, as per the UK, Europe, USA etc. In short this means that automakers will become quite limited in the number of high fuel consumption vehicles they can sell without incurring big penalties. Moving a traditionally thirsty model like the highlander to hybrid only is an easy win for the importer in these circumstances.
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