You own a TL. Guess you have sorted out the suspension to make it the weapon they can be in the right hands? A bike you gotta know how to ride or it will go very wrong very quickly. Right at this point in time I own a 1200 Bandit. Its quite a bit less powerful than ive had but still does the job. Ive got 40 years of motorcycle riding under my belt, everything from 100cc to 1400cc 2 stroke (no thanks) 1 cylinder 2 cylinder and 4. Ridden most makes owned all the Jap players and even a BMW but wasn't me really, like my big Jap 4s.
apollo11,
Jun 26, 6:01am
Apologies, got you confused with gunner lol. Yes, Ohlins rear and Race Tech front innards. But she's still heavy and mean.
gunhand,
Jun 26, 6:08am
All good. I had the pleasure of riding a brand new RZ500 when they first came out, I was riding a Katana 1100 at time (the real one) and these things were cutting edge tech back then. Not a lot happened till it happened on those things and by Jesus when it did you had to hang on. Hence preferring reasonably predictable large 4s. OH, and one learn't heaps about ill handling on a Katana lol.
apollo11,
Jun 26, 6:16am
Yeah some of the old stuff was a bit baggy. The Katanas are starting to climb in value now, if you've noticed.
gunhand,
Jun 26, 6:27am
Yes, I have noted LOL. But can not keep everything one has had. Bloody hell if I kept everything ive owned (car and bike) with their current values I could've paid me mortgage twice over and some, mutter mutter. I once told a dealer their 1970 350 Monaro was to dare at 13k. Well, it was then. And I hummed and hahed over a VC Brockadore at 14k, I hahed to much then as well. Thats life tho
apollo11,
Jun 26, 6:33am
Yeah, I was offered a pair of RD400's for $500 at one point and turned my nose up. A mate tried to sell me his Honda S600 coupe and I turned my nose up at that too.
ronaldo8,
Jun 26, 10:26am
If the horsepower is the same it doesn't matter if there are two bangs three bangs or 500 hamsters on wheels making it, it's the same. Its not the minima and maxima of the curves that matter, its the shape and the amount of area under each. The thing is that most two strokes are tuned for maximum output in the upper midrange because that's where most of them live most of the time. I had a KDX200 that was more low/mid but that kind of tuning is the exception not the rule, not the daft blanket claim of the OP.
The CRF450 is making just a bit more power than the KX250 but they are comparable, but compare the two torque curves for each. In particular the shape and smoothness in the low end. Likewise the other comparison pair, the CRF250 and the YZ125, comparable peak power but very different torque delivery at low rpm
apollo11,
Jun 26, 10:41am
The OP also said that 'communism sounds like a nice idea', so either trolling is going on or there is a dislocation from reality. You are correct, 2 smokes are normally smaller, lighter and tuned for top end. That's where they shine, not as an equivalent to a 4 stroke, only with mediocre fuel economy and longevity. Modern 4 stroke motorcycles are more powerful, lighter and better handling than ever, perhaps the OP could try test riding a few.
ronaldo8,
Jun 26, 10:54am
Hell I love the smelly little obnoxious chainsaws, well, when the aren't ripping up and down in front of my house that is
tygertung,
Jun 26, 6:33pm
It isn't really comparable comparing a 450cc engine to a 250cc engine, really the engine should be compared size for size.
As much as I do love the two strokes, the issue is the out of control fuel consumption, which is why I am most likely why I am going to sell my RZ350 once I get it going.
Well as for communism, it sounds like a nice idea, but it will never work.
ronaldo8,
Jun 26, 8:36pm
You just dont get it do you. It doesn't matter what the minima and Maxima are ffs. The characteristic curves are not the same, the two strokes is bunched up near the top end because thats were its tuned to deliver power, the four stroke is flatter because it has valve timing that isn't flow dependent and a hell of a lot more repicoracating mass,
Looking at equal power delivery just lets you see the difference more easily, but the size of the numbers doesn't make and difference to the shape of them taken as a whole, something you failed to see every time you pulled out 2 discreet peak numbers as if you were proving something. Christ on a bike.
Why don't you put a straight pipe on thar rz and go figure it out for yourself.
houseofdad,
Jun 26, 8:52pm
Love the tl1000s.
The 2 most exciting two-strokes for me are the CR500 and KX500 around an MX track. Went to the Methven Street races and there was a guy on a black CR500, shiit he could ride, he was pulling wheel-stands the length of the main straight. The big bore 2-stroke made the 450's look boring.
ronaldo8,
Jun 26, 9:32pm
My old YZ465 was "exciting". A little too exciting really and I like a brisk game of Russian roulette as much as any psycho. It was the first one, before they calmed it down with a slightly less peaky pipe. My own fault, id stuck lights on it and was trying to use it for enduro. a very poor choice.
tygertung,
Jun 26, 10:13pm
Reciprocating mass won't affect how much torque the engine produces. Put an engine on a dyno and load it up so it is running at a constant RPM and you'll find that out quite quickly.
Sure, the torque curve on a 2 stroke may not be as flat and mediocre as a 4 stroke, but the fact of the matter is it produces more torque at a lower RPM than a 4 stroke.
ronaldo8,
Jun 27, 12:04am
Its a fact in lala land , Stay there, I don't give a shit
Constant rpm now I see, what happened to "low down torque"? Keep moving those goalposts, you are sure to get a goal, but at this point, you're playing with yourself.
tygertung,
Jun 27, 4:30am
So you are saying that if you put the world's most massive flywheel on an engine, it will suddenly produce a lot more torque?
tygertung,
Jun 27, 4:33am
Do you even know how an expansion chamber works? I have a couple of books on it. It isn't the early '60s any more, expansion chambers have multi stage divergent and convergent ducts, making them effective over a broad range of RPM.
And what engines are those figures you have up there from please?
ronaldo8,
Jun 27, 5:38am
No that is what you think I am saying, because either you need me to and/or your reading comprehension is shit. Try again, pay carefull attention this time.
Tip for you, any sentence you start with "so you are saying" is nearly always followed by what you are saying, generally a strawman argument. I can count about five instance of you falling in that particular sort of hole so far, lets see you go for number six.
PS. be sure to keep ignoring the shape and distribution of the curves shown here, in order to distract yourself. And if you do find yourself taking a naughty peek, focus on individual values, that should provide you a sufficient smoke screen to allow you to to ignore whats staring you in the face.
Don't look at the forest, concentrate on the trees like a good little shrub. Now I really am done with you, this race around the raspberry bush with captain tedious has grown dull.
As you can see the 450 has to be revved very high to get any power out of it.
Anyway, I can clearly see that you are very two stroke, but don't worry, it leaves more for the rest of us.
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