Re : people asking for opinions on certain Holdens , Fords etc , you just hear that so many people have warranty or early wear issues left,right and centre , seemingly whether its 10yrs old or the latest model , There really is no excuse in today's age especially for having so many design-based problems . Electrical gremlins / brakes wearing or warping early / trim falling offetc etc etc etc etc. I was keen on getting a Ford Territory once , and a test drive confirmed it drove great , but my budget and life would not allow it to "possibly be in the workshop alot of the time" if it turned out to be a "Monday morning or Friday avo built" car , so decided against it.Geez , Ford & Holden , you both make some great looking Aus. designed vehicles , but as an ownership proposition you just have to think twice. Is it possibly also that these vehicles just get used harder by "some of the typical apes" that drive many of these cars ! And then also look at some of the trim and interior finishing inside them , Lego Toys would be embarrassed ! So I guess it will be like supermodels for me until I hear things have changed. Great to look at , but you just couldn't go there.
bigjerry,
Sep 8, 6:51am
I have had a few aussie VT's. I have to say how crap they are built, so i will, CRAP. The build quality is embarrasing. Interior, exterior, electrical. The engine is reliable but ofcourse that wasnt built in Aussie!
gman35,
Sep 8, 7:02am
I wonder if is because the cars generally are not built for the world market , and that last bit of development etc is deemed to not be required for a smaller market ("Don't worry Bruce , the loyal local's will still buy 'em") ! (even though some Holdens have been exported to the USA , but yanks are hardly the one's to worry about quality ay!)
gunhand,
Sep 8, 7:06am
Oh I agree, the new VEs are crap.Poor trim fit, flimsy plastics, door panels that have the strenght of tin foil, door gaps and alignment is poor, you touch any of the interior plastics and they mark, stupid floppy keys, the interior door handle moves the trim when you open the door, handbrake handle feels like it would snap if you pulled slighty hard on it, and unless your 6 foot you cant see where the front of the car is, blind spots for africa, the paint dont match, the bumpers flop about if you touch them, and thats only after an hour or two looking at one. maybe they should stop putting all the interesting but generally useless features in them and concentrate on build quaility. Or do they not excpect them to be around in ten years time! The japs have got it all over the aussies thats for sure no matter what anyone can attempt to say. VE, most disapointing car ive come across for a while.
pandai,
Sep 8, 7:39am
NZ's Camry's are built in Australia, aren't they!
gman35,
Sep 8, 7:46am
a (very early) pattern possibly forming here ! ,from what I have heard it can be very random ,some cars heve HEAPS of issues , some very few , if any are found.
richardmayes,
Sep 8, 7:47am
People love to have a moan. No-one's going to start a thread about how their car started up just fine this morning and got them to work with no problems at all.
The negative stories that you hear on here about almost any car are probably very over represented.
[Except for supercharged V6 Holdens, those really are just mud.]
gman35,
Sep 8, 7:48am
Yes , but design is Jap , and I will bet anything that quality control will be better (note good design and finish of components helps for a more consistent assembly also). (P.S. I admire most Fords , more so UK ones from many years , and find Toyota's generally boring).
gman35,
Sep 8, 7:50am
Absolutely , we never enter a thread to praise do we ! ,but certainly there are tons of niggly issues that rarely pop up in jap / euro cars though.
richardmayes,
Sep 8, 8:05am
Absolutely. Some cars are built with good parts designed and detailed in ways that make them easy to put together correctly, and some cars just are not.
Probably an extreme example but I own a NZ-assembled Triumph from the 1970s and my missus owns a NZ-assembled Ford Laser (i.e. a Mazda) from the 1980s. Their specifications are amazingly similar - Lucas coil, manual window winders, electric heater fan, manual choke, disc brakes at the front and drums at the rear with a tandem master cylinder, etc.
Basically, every system of the Mazda looks amazingly similar to the corresponding system on the Triumph, except that when I work on the Mazda everything's always quick and easy to assemble and fits perfectly, and everything on the Triumph is an absolute prick to take apart and put back together. You need about 3 hands and a strong shoulder to put a window winder back together on a Triumph, thanks to the stupid little pin in the middle that holds it in place.The laser has one big circlip that just clips over the outside of the whole thing in about two seconds - beautiful! It's no wonder Japanese cars took over the world.
[The engine room jobs on the Triumph are slightly easier because the Laser's engine is hidden under a huge plastic air cleaner.]
vtecintegra,
Sep 8, 9:33am
The 3800 was built in Australia as is the newer V6
bigjerry,
Sep 8, 10:13am
really! i thought it was a buick, imported! oh well, they got 1 thing right
scotty20001,
Sep 8, 10:35am
don't talk about your 3rd world built accord like that mayes, and don't get me started on British Leyland, there was a massive recall on honda accords not so long ago but that was kept quiet eh, i just think its the trans tasman rivalry and Kiwis are pissed off they can't make and design a great car like Australia can and there for put them down when in fact Aussie cars stand up to much more abuse then pretty well any othermake, never had any problems with my VX at all, and the VE's we have at work are very well made cars in fact much better built then most of their rivals and my god they drive well i would have a VE Calais V over pretty well anything on the road in the same price range today, oh and don't listen to mayes the guy is an idiot and doesn't know the first thing about Commodores and somehow thinks Accords are the best thing since sliced bread.
scotty20001,
Sep 8, 10:36am
so whole family of shit box cars then mayes!
scotty20001,
Sep 8, 10:39am
+1 i was about to explain that but you beat me to it, the series 1 V6 in the VN was the only imported engine from Buick, after that they built the engine in Australia and made the changes accordingly and it has turned out to be one of the most durable and reliable engines around.
richardmayes,
Sep 8, 10:59am
Yeah I can't wait to get into an old Commodore, so I can be one of life's winners too!
ianalice1,
Sep 8, 11:08am
As you say, "find Toyota's generally boring)", but I have found build quality is very good on all the Toyota's we have had. We just loved the Windows/Lexus. Now, Thats a car!
yeah thats my dream car too. i have it on good authority that the S/C ones are the greatest cars on the planet with only the bugatti veyron being marginally ahead on performance.
elect70,
Sep 8, 2:09pm
Aussie inherited the pom work attitude& the unions . It was OK when they had virtualy no competion from the Europens as governments taxed them so highaverage joe blogs couldnt afford 1 & theprohibition on JUI' s but now withplenty of competition for the motorists $ you would think they would up their game
foxdonut,
Sep 8, 3:40pm
I'm guessing the S2 VE SS Commy, fully optioned with the touchscreen, GPS, sound package, dual fuel V8 engine and custom leather interior choices is still only going to be half the price of a BMW M3 - which is roughly the same level of performance.
You want all the options in a car that won't fall apart then you spend twice as much.
There's no Toyotaor "Lexus" that comes close the VE for perfomance for the same 40-60k figure you're paying for them.
VE / any Holden / is hardly "the greatest car ever made" but its hard to knock them for the price, which is exactly what the market demands.
franc123,
Sep 8, 3:46pm
I also wouldn't bet that buying a new BMW will mean you aren't going to be on a first name basis with the service manager at your nearest dealer either. You are 100% correct about the value for money that the Aussie metal does offer.
gunhand,
Sep 8, 3:46pm
Think you need to take the blinders off and really have a look at your VEs. The ones I spoke of were a VE calais and VE,SS. A 10 (probably 20) year old jap car is better made than these things. Ive only worked on the two but it was enough to put me off them.Holdens been the game for a long time now you would think they would have it right by now. For a 50k plus car there not good. How hard can it be to make a plastic that can stand a foot scuffed over it or wiped and actually cleans ok. and the tactile feel to some items is awfull.A door gap at the bottom at one end was so tight you could barly get masking tape under it and the other end you could get your finger under it. They will be absolute rubbish and worn out in 15 years if that. Plenty of jap cars 15 years old that look good as still and holding together. And I dont comment from any bias either. Just what I see and feel.
leighfrancesca,
Sep 8, 3:49pm
I love my Holdens but readily admit that they do appear to be a car that is built around the engine and a lot of the other stuff seems to be a bit of an afterthought.I was a bit disappointed with the "plasticiness" of the interiors (I've only owned VR/VS so can't comment on other years) when compared with say the diamantes of the same era.I'm still a fan, I just accept that there are a lot of other decent cars out there on the market.
foxdonut,
Sep 8, 4:02pm
I honestly can't think of a single Japanese car in the last 20 years that I thought looked really good.
If you want a hand rolled alluminium, 20 coats of paint, artisan hand stiched premium leather interior Aston Martin then they go for 300k upwards and someone in England will even engrave your name on the interior sill guard.
Until then, your average munter who thinks watching rugby on a big TV while drinking a nine dollars a bottle beer is the peak of luxury and high living the a plastic car with 6 litre V8 with any sort of leather and a touchscreen console inside for 40 grand is going to be more than enough to win the buyers over say, a robotic assembled plain white box that (might not) rattle for the first 20 thousand kays and comes with a CD player, manually ajusted cloth seats and 2 litre lawnmover sized engine.
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