I agree they are built to a price and the high performance ones do offer a lot of noisy bang for their buck, that is fair enough. Just a couple of tings irk me though.
1. The entry level Commodores are not the "cheap car" they once were. So if you are charging VW Passat money at least try and offer a similar level of build quality etc.
2. Insulting advertising campaigns that try and sell Aussie cars as being just as good as a proper European luxury car for a fraction of the price are pathetic. Its simply not the case and if I were an Aussie car manufacturer I would be keeping very quiet on the subject given you can buy a proper quality Euro for the same money.
foxdonut,
Sep 8, 5:20pm
I agree with the advertising. Anyone remember the Gen 1 CV8 Monaro advert where it blitzed a 911, 360, Sagaris, Diablo etc around a CG racetrack!
Quite laughable when the car itself struggles to beat 15 seconds in the quartermile.
wasser61,
Sep 8, 5:44pm
This is just a whinge thread against Australian Holden's and Ford's. The JD Power graph shows that over a 1000 point scale the difference between the best and the worst manufacturer for cars sold in Australia is only 49 points No one now a days would build a car with bad quality. Against the rest of the world they would stand up against the mainstream vehicle manufacturers. As for European Quality, ummm that is the worst in the world. Even the Chinese are better than 90 % of the Europeans.
chris_051,
Sep 8, 5:47pm
You wont find many other engines that will last as long as the AUSSIE designed and built Ford 4.0l. 645,000km on my original AU ute no worries.
grangies,
Sep 8, 6:02pm
Like what!
As in size and power!
Don't get me wrong. I can't stand the average Falcon or Commodore or Camry or Diamante.
But what is an example of a similar priced big Euro car!
grangies,
Sep 8, 6:04pm
Goodness gracious me !
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 8, 6:37pm
In fairness its hard to exactly match both performance and size for the price but then not every buyer actually needs/wants the last word in both.
Anyhow I was thinking base model Passat for $47'000 with a 0-100 time of less than a second slower than a base model Commodore.
If you wanted more power and were happy to compromise slightly on space the Skoda Octavia VRS TSI for $49'500 will beat a base model Commodore to 100km/h.
I am not trying to say that the Euro is for everyone or that they offer everything the Commodore/Falcon does the Aussies do have a slight edge on the last bit of power/space in tandem. But there are plenty of other goodies they don't have that the Euro's do so its a case of pro's/cons.
The key point is that the Aussies do need to be mindful that the likes of the Passat is a seriously well built and well equipped vehicle that offers a lot to please a good portion of their target market for the same or even less coin.
I think realistically they rely a lot on the skewed sentiments of their target market towards anything European to sell as many cars as they do. If attitudes were to change and cars weighed on their merits they might be in a bit of trouble.
franc123,
Sep 8, 7:24pm
I think before this debate goes any further I should remind everybody that the Commodore, while mostly Australian made, is and always has been based on GM global, chiefly Opel,architecture and body construction technology, and is modified to suit the Aussie spec drivetrains and other requirements of the local market.And as such could not be considered vastly inferior to other mainstream German product I'd have thought, at least in terms of the above.Australian assembly standards however are a different story.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 8, 7:32pm
Good point and noted. However, as you know I don't go out of my way to knock European product. However the Opel stuff really is not up to the standard of the other Germans VW or BMW. It can put on a good show when everything is working but the design, build quality and durability is sorely lacking.
To put it another way if the rest of my experience with European cars matched that of my experience with Opels you would likely find me peddling Honda's and the like.
c_h_l,
Sep 8, 7:32pm
Agree, we have only ever had Holdens & Fords and can only think of one that gave us continuous problems and thats only because some mullet stole it and it never drove the same again after that! Currently we have 1 ford and 4 Holdens and a total of 23 Fords and Holdens that I can remember in the past 10 years. Admit we did look at a VE and wouldnt buy one as did not suit our needs but wouldnt say no to one in the future either if our situation changed! I wouldnt even consider buying anything other than Aussie made.
rob_man,
Sep 8, 7:36pm
I empathise with what you say here, the crash repair industry is one which gives an appreciation for well designed and serviceable vehicles. I found little to enjoy about working on home made Australian cars which had been designed while they were being built.
scotty20001,
Sep 8, 10:08pm
you really can't talk with your fleet mayes, even a VP Calais would out do any car you own, unlike you i couldn't give 2 shits what people think i just like to educate idiots like you that cars built in thailand arn't so good and a 1980's Ford Laser will not be a patch on even a base spec VX Commodore you need to lay off the crack if you think otherwise, name me something from Japan or your favorite country thailand that can keep up with a VE SS V or Ford XR6T for the price go on mayes i dare you! no smart arse comments just answer my question and i might that is MIGHT take you seriously.
The Aussie Diamantes were pretty good, especially thelater model ones.They were essentially the same car from 97-05 so I think they had enough time to iron out all the little problems over that time. They out perform your average Holdens too both in speed and handling. But Australians didn't give them a fair go, Maybe because they were front wheel drive! Anyway everyone I know that owns a holden has a very close relationship with their mechanic.
akaniva,
Sep 9, 5:41am
Just buy a Jap car, and drive troublefree for years.beats me why anyone buys that Aussie crap or even some of that German crap.
Go the Japs! They are the best "affordable" carmakers on the face of the earth in my experience.
specialk11,
Sep 9, 5:56am
I wont argue with you Akaniva. Late model Holden = Cheezy
phalanax,
Sep 9, 6:52am
All cars have their good side and their dark side.it takes manufacturers time to iron out the kinks.the trick is knowing what is a good car and what is not
grangies,
Sep 9, 7:03am
What!. 63 years!
crzyhrse,
Sep 9, 7:04am
I've found that one of the best things about owning a Ford is that when you have a problem you can guarantee it's common. My mate has a Fairmont 1 year newer than mine and we've pretty much matched each other blow for blow with faults. And they've all been minor, even at nearly 300 000km. I think my most major, a cracked radiator tank, a couple of months back, cost me $268 for a brand new brass core one.
phalanax,
Sep 9, 7:22am
Yep.new tecnologytakes time.they aint pumping out FJ's today but if they were I bet they wouldnt have alot of faults.same goes with windows 7 look at the updates being added everyday.even in nature nothing is perfect.we live in a disposable ever evolving society todays cars are made to be recycled and who wants the old model when you can have the series 2.lol
richardmayes,
Sep 9, 8:19am
Thanks; I do enjoy driving the Laser. It's pretty good transportation for $1000. Around Wellington it's good to be in something small that handles like a go-kart. It just needs another litre of engine, then it would be able to give your NOT A V8 a run.
rayzor14,
Sep 9, 8:26am
There are two sides to every story I suppose. I've had a BA XR6 turbo, a BF XR6 Turbo and an FPV F6 - shocking build quality and more road noise that any other car I have owned but for the money it compared well in terms of performance, handling etc to vehicles of much greater value. $200 spent on well placed dynamat cured the road noise and a weekend spent working through some of the relatively minor build issues made a huge difference.
My attitude then and now was that I can cure little build quality issues and a bit of road noise with much less effort and cost than it would require to take an ill handling, underpowered creation and turn it into a competent touring car.
Sure, if you are happy to drive from Picton to Invercargill at 90kph, dilligently slowing to the signposted speeds for every bend whilst closeted in silence and enjoying the pleasures of driving something with all the feedback of a playstation then go ahead and buy a Prius or Camry or whatever other boring form of automotive blasphemy gets you going - on the other hand I'm happy to suffer relatively minor build quality issues in order to gain the benefit of driving something with a little personality.
Nothing against Japanese cars either, I have a twin turbo 300Z that suffered the very same poor build quality as my Falcons but that too has personality. I drive that because it is rewarding - it goes around corners, sticks to the road like a limpet, overtakes with way too much ease. Yep, it has its issues and consumes a little time now and again maintaining things that could have been built or assembled better but if I had wanted the utter boredom of the alternatives I would have taken the train.
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