I Learnt A Baffling Thing Regarding Fines Today.

Zeph I agree it seems odd. The really odd one is the fact you are deducted PAYE off an unemployment benefit.y'what now!!

I'm GUESSing in this case ( I admit I have no idea) that it is to do with the fact that it's up to WINZ to decide who can and can't pay fines or get assistance. That's what they do. It's more transparent that way, the alternative being the Courts themselves deciding who should and shouldn't get fined. I'd have a bigger problem with that. You're right, it's paper based transaction only though.

you have a huge amount of "public servants" that have a vested interest in the "system"being as big & easy with cash as possible

large areas of government are inefficient & wastefull simply because its the government whose the employer instead of private enterprise - the people in it are there for the job when the job actually exists to serve the public

theres nothing you can do about it, & the average citizen would actually suffer more if the "system" was run privately (for profit)

you simply have to accept the waste as being part of democracy

(& be thankfull every day that your not american)

I have never read a bigger load of crap on this board. And in this place, that's really saying something.

Well I disagree with so much that I've read in some of the last posts as much as I expect others will disagree with my point view, naturally.But I disagree with taxpayers investing a system where some expect there will be up to a 90% failure rate as stated above - that's not a good investment any way you look at it.

Look, we all make life decisions from a very early age. None of us will get it right all the time, and we'll pay financially, physically or emotionally for our mistakes. I'd like to think I've paid for at least most of my mistakes throughout the years, and it's been through hard work and at times a bit of harden the #@$^ up and doing without a few things, rather than asking for someone else to pay the way.When it's been financial strife, it's just meant I've had to work harder to catch up - and a bit of hard work never hurt anyone.

On the other hand I know too many people who 'can't' get out of the life they are in simply because it's too easy to pop down to WINZ and get them to pay the rent/phone/power, despite the fact they do have options.And I have no doubt that they aren't a few isolated examples, rather a lifestyle choice they along with many others have made.And that hits you and me in the pocket and I don't know what it does to the overall economy!At what point do you say enough is enough and let people stand on their own two feet!

Regarding decades of training etc., well when I stand back and look at when my parents were young, they had to pay their own way, had a large family and likewise had to pay everything themselves no matter how little money there was from week to week.But they worked hard and I'd like to think that taught us as kids how to provide for our families.I'm not sure what reliance on the welfare system teaches kids who are brought up in those families, but if as they say 'violence begets violence' - does it also translate that welfare reliance begets welfare reliance!I'm betting the numbers on welfare are increasing more rapidly rather than they are diminishing for a lot of reasons.And the fact that decades of research can end up in wasteful paper shuffling as per post 1 for me just proves the point that everything we have 'learned' in this modern world isn't necessarily better. But I expect others will disagree with that, and that's fine.

Anyway while there's more of my rationale I could put up here, I'd rather settle in for the night watching some rugby and searching for car parts online, but I'll read later how you all put my thoughts to the sword depending on your point of view. I doubt I'll repost in here (unless severely niggled) - there's little value in such debates in my mind, but needless to say, when I'm the boss of the world, expect some changes.!

of course your right - theres no wastage in government run organisations at all compared to private

Look Andy, you need to take a deep breath I think and not take this all so personally unless there is a reason you are taking it so personally!People are always going to disagree about all sorts of things - everyone will have a different perspective on any range of subjects.

But frankly calling people miserable bastards who aren't in the least bit illegitimate shows a lack of clear thought.There will always be people who need help from time to time for any number of reasons.The problem in this country is that it's too easy for it to become a lifestyle that pays more than some hard working people earn.And some of those people expect it as a right, rather than appreciate it for what it is. I know people that think that way.

The 'picking on easy minorities' line is just a load of crap in my opinion that perpetuates that same victim mentality where it's always someone elses fault.

And I wasn't attempting to twist your words - in two previous posts you said (or words to the effect) that if 90% didn't take the opportunity/ failed and sold the tools at the pub and sat on their arse doing nothing, that it would still be worthwhile.On that point I absolutley disagree that a scheme/investment would be worthwhile or successful if it failed 80-90% of it's target.Again to me that's rewarding failure and perpetuating a cycle of pointlessly throwing money into a pit.There are plenty of other areas that wasted 90% of money could have been spent - health, education, public transport etc etc, where it would make a real difference to the life of a person or people who need it.And I hope it has a far better success rate than 10% and better than 50% even, taking into account that there will always be 'unemployable' people that filter through no matter how much time or money you invest into them.

No doubt there are more qualified people than you or I that monitor and assess these things. I would hope.But again feel free to agree to disagree - you obviously have a different perspective to me but surely all we both want is a better community for our kids to grow up in and become valuable members who contribute to society!

Thats concise for a 12 year old & so far away from the initial topic I cant even begin to critique it

350 Chev versus Nissan Diesel ! I've got a 1993 SAFARI with the 6 cylinder Diesel and aftermarket Turbo, it's done 440 000 km but still goes real well, without high Oil consumption. A recon engine would cost, all up, new injectors overhaul turbo etc over 10 k. Now I am wondering whether it would be cheaper in a long term to buy a Landcruiser with a near new 350 engine. Fuel consumption might be higher and petrol is more expensive but 350 are quitecommon , parts cheaper, no Road User Charges etc. And more imortantly, the 60 series Cruisers are simple (not as comfortable as a Safari) reliable, proven vehicles. Any opinions out there! What fuel consumption, roughly, can I excpect from a 350 in a 60 series Cruiser.
Cheers, Dirk.

Misplaced my new thread, sorry!

Massive fuel consumption - have a friend that had a swb safari with a 350 & it would need refuelling twice before he got anywhere (terrible offroad too because the silly people that own petrol stations dont build em in the bush 8P)

At the end of the day it's probably much cheaper than prosecution and incarceration.

No. 10.5% for the portion under $14k.

That's $1470 plus (($27 040 - $14 000) x 17.5%) = $2282. Income Tax Total = $3752 less rebate entitlements.

but despite everything else, you've ignored the costs of running and administering the process (including rebranding and updating stationery every couple of years), the cost of those who fall out of the system despite having money basically thrown at them.it really is a bit pointless trying to figure it out from a financial pont of view as it's probably not even possible without knowing a lot more information and considering a far bigger picture than tax revenue.

and i didn't think we were considering those who were being put in prison as much as those who had racked up loads of fines etc, and at what point they pull finger and take some responsibility!perhaps they might be better to give them the option - we wipe your fines now and you start from scratch, or we set you up with tools and work etc and you can work off your fines!all seems a bit easy to give some of them everything, but i've never walked that path myself.

you made the comment that a guy who racked up a heap of fines and was having his benefit cut back to pay for it was the disadvantaged one.he is the one responsible for his actions - he is not a victim of 'bullying' by a government exacting their dues from him for his choice to break the law, but merely reaping what he sowed.

if you think there aren't people who choose the benefit as a lifestyle, you surely have your head in the sand. i don't mind paying taxes - it's a fact of life, but i'd rather the money was used to advance our country rather than pay for playstation games.

big up's to OP. Giving the young chap a chance is a bloody good break ,I think winzhand out cash a little to easy it does not teach them anything I hope the chap takes this opitunity and runs with it you only get one shot. My self personaly years ago I quit school ,worked in the bush about 2 days out of every 5 ,spent time on the dole and any other hand out I could get. worked as a welder for a bit got fired for not showing up every day. I then went fora job as a telco rigger rigging on communications towers etc I got offered the job purely becuase no one else was mad enough .I decided then and there this was my break. I had about 10k of fines and owed aboutanother 12k to bay corp.I worked my guts out rigging for 2 years my boss deducted an amount every pay to clear up my debts. He was old fashioned and hard I hated the decisions he made sometimes he then signed me up and I did a 5 year apprentiship in telecommunications threating any failures would then be deducted from my hide. . 14 years on I make a good salary up the food chain in a management position and are still good friends with my original boss who is now retired . I owe a lot to him and will never forget the opitunity I got.

I think Zeph is doing a great thing and I hope the young chap can see that and puts the effort in optiunities loike this do not come along every day

Jesus - are you still going on!

Gooodon you Zeph for giving a young bloke a chance. So what if he has a few fines, doesn't mean hes a bad bugger does it!. i got clocked in the work truck doin 40 in a 30k zone the other day and im not a bad arse. I take it he got more than the ocassional speeding fine thou but perhaps if he had money to keep wof and reg up to date i bet there wouldn't be half as much fines! Would be nice if they put 1500 on fines and 3000 on tools just to give him a 'Fair' start. Perhaps you could make a call to winz and explain to the lady that he needs more $$ for tools for work! Because if he doesn't have the tools he can't do the job. Simple!