Ok. now im LOST.

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ginga4lyfe, Mar 25, 11:24am
when i last pulled the carb apart i tried my best to alighn the plate as best as i could, but no matter what i did, unless the plate was on a "impossible" angle ( impossible in the way that the holes were not alighned with the spindle anymore) with the throttle fully closed i could still see light comming through when looking down the throat, when a light source was directed back on the other side of the carb, , this wear was more noticable on the sides of the butterfly rather- I hope this kinda makes sence, this was also apparent only on one carb, the other was fine
richardmayes, Mar 25, 11:46am
University of Melbourne Engineering School tested an engine running NZ unleaded petrol with Valvemaster, a range of other brand lead substitutes, and no lead substitute at all, back when unleaded petrol was first introduced in the early 90s. Broadly speaking they found that Valvemaster is effective in preventing accelerated exhaust valve seat recession, but none of the other products they tested were effective and the recession rate was similar to unleaded with no additive. And the unleaded certainly did cause faster than expected valve seat recession in their test engine, I forget what sort of engine itwas though.

So the problem is real for some engines, and Valvemaster at least is not magic snake oil.

Apologies for more spam!
smac, Mar 25, 11:56am
ginga you're sure the butterfly was the right way around! They're bevelled.
elect70, Mar 25, 12:10pm
Sure no manifold leaks,did you clean & put on new gaskets ,squirt oil around the joints & see if it makes a difference. I had mini with twin 1 1/2 su s on aftermarket manifold , it kept backfiring , turned out the faces were not true , causing air leak .
ginga4lyfe, Mar 25, 1:10pm
Ill upload a video of the back firing, unfortunately i cant take it for a drive while videoing as the road works have blocked off my drive way :( , I dont like revving cars like i did in the video either, but its tuned rich ( quite rich ) and its still back firing,, and yep elect, I made sure there were no leaks

ok. I wanted to upload a video, But my camera completely failed to capture the back firing, you can hear me revving the car. but no firing, but yeah as it is, its only back firing inconsistantly and in the upper rpm's when under no load, when under load then it spits through the carbs and is gutless with foot to floor acceleration, ( but the first quarter off the accelerator pedal makes the car move quite well untill it back fires, im running outa options here, the idle is now at an acceptable low, though it needs new springs to keep it there, and no manner of tuning makes it any better ( and i cant find the sweet spot for tuning its either rich or lean )
ginga4lyfe, Mar 25, 2:48pm
ok and now. iv found another problem! i saw a little wet spot behind the head onthe firewall, so i started it up. and nothing, but as soon as i touch the throttle. clear fluid pits out! . well now it looks like ill have to take the head off! so much for not doing so! but yeah anyways, I was talking to another older fella and he reackons that its absolutly possible that the valve springs have gone soft as the car did sit for a long time before being moved, I dunno I did buy more gasket card to replace the carb -manifold gasket, but i may just go any buy a different engine instead of stuffing around with this one any longer

what a damn mission, ohwell i guess its to be expected from a 400 dollar car with a blown clutch!
supernova2, Mar 25, 8:20pm
This is probably a sily quextion but why on earth did you remove the butterfly plates from the spindles!Did you keep each carb serperate when you pulled them to bits or did you mix and match!My triumphs were either PI or Strombergs but I've worked on what seams like squillions of SU on other BLMC stuff and Ive never had the problems you are having.Have you established if its pitting on all 6 or just one pot!A spit back can only be wrong ignition timing, or an inlet valve not shutting properly.SUs are pretty forgiving and in my opinion if you cant get it (what you think is) lean enough its either got wrong needles/jets or they are not set up properly.Are you sure the damper pistions are totally free to move and dropping right to the bottom of their travel!
ginga4lyfe, Mar 25, 10:12pm
as Per Manual and online instructions " dismantle fully and examine spindle and throttle plates for excessive wear( also mentioned other parts )" in which i did, and nope, i didnt mix and match, I boxed one while one was being stripped and cleaned then put back together, yeah I know its normally a Ign timing thing, i have set the ign timing as per specs to 10Deg BTDCand I had played with the timing pre new vacuum advance. so . now im thinking, maybe set it to 14 degrees ans see how she runs!
ginga4lyfe, Mar 27, 3:00pm
anyways, since i have another head+intake+carbies on their way to my house ( picked up for a sweet 100 bucks) i started to pull the head off, and the amount of crud i have had to wipe off just one push rod is AMAZING, iv never seen a dirtyer engine! , but besides that , i have a problem. everything is loose and the head "should" easily lift off, but. its almost as if its welded to the block, it just wont budge, no amount of using compressed air or rubber mullet smashing or prying has succeeded , tomorrow i may just see if i can hook up my block and tackle and see if i can use the weight of the car to pull the head off or is this a bad idea!
biddy6, Mar 27, 6:51pm
Can you crank it over, this sometimes can work. (put the plugs in if they are out).
jmma, Mar 27, 6:54pm
Just make sure you dont squirt petrol over the coil (o:
ginga4lyfe, Mar 27, 8:13pm
cranked it over, and it didnt break the seal, Iv heard of some horror stories about people using a bond to glue the head gasket to the block and the head, im hoping this isnt the case, but sure feels like it!
smac, Mar 27, 8:19pm
I don't know the head you're working with at all, but you're absolutely sure there's no low profile bolt head hiding someplace! Definitely slowly lever off in some way, don't use the car weight. Something will bend break when it gives way.
ginga4lyfe, Mar 27, 8:26pm
absolutely sure there were 14 head bolts, and 3 water pump bolts, and a few manifold bolts, according to the manual i have done the disassembleycorrectly except it says " gently wriggle the head to break seal, if wont break use piston compression to break seal" or something to that effect, the only thing i havnt tried is squirting a little oil down the bores to seal off the rings a little better while tuning it over
xacoon, Mar 27, 8:28pm
look at it this way ginga, as I usually strike the same problem. at least when you have a problem its an interesting problem that has all the experts scratching their heads. gotta make life interesting somehow haha,
jmma, Mar 27, 8:33pm
Are they head bolts, thought they were studs, if studs you need to lever evenly
ginga4lyfe, Mar 27, 9:39pm
haha damn straight! i like fixing cars, but i like my beer COLD after im finished the job, not warm like the poms get suckered into
ginga4lyfe, Mar 27, 9:41pm
yeah they are studs, though some came out as bolts instead, and thats half my problem with getting the head off, I cant just get a long pry bar wedge it some were and throw my weight into it. coz either it will come off and damage something in the process, or. ill bend something and the head wont come off.
supernova2, Mar 27, 10:30pm
Double nut the studs that didnt come out and unscrew them all.That way you can move the head anyway you can without it twising and jaming.Hope the "new" head has the same carbs and not strombergs
ginga4lyfe, Mar 27, 10:51pm
at the moment im 2 sided about that, if it has strombergs, atleased its cheaper to get a rebuild kit for them, but harder to tune, im hoping that the carbs im getting are the non "anti tamper" ones, the anti tamper ones would cost me about 170 bucks in nz to rebuild each, were as i can import a kit for BOTH at 190 bucks,strombergs should be cheaper. i hope.
ruaphu, Mar 28, 12:58pm
Hey Ginga4lyfe, wot a mish! I've had many an english car with SU's (& their drama's) I thought I would drop in my two cents if you don't mind. I see a comment about points, just going back to basics for a minute. The condenser has been changed right! These capacitors have a nasty habit of breaking down in odd ways creating issues (all very similar to what you are describing) Any tune up should start with points & condenser.
If you do intend on this car being a daily driver, dump the points and consenser set up and replace with electronic ignition set. I did, it saved memany headaches in the long run.

As per the other threads, I fully agree about the air leaks, correct spacer fittment, butterflys are matched & not backward, correct oil in pots, swelling seals, etc etc. Regarding the plastic spacer, clean em up & apply talc powder, any cracks will show up instantly.

I take it the car has been sitting for ages! This in it self could create a multitude of issues. I take it - It was running sorta OK before pulling down!With the clear fluid being pushed onto the fire wall is of concern, pos head gakset leak from combustion to water jacket! head off will be the only sure way to cure it of that issue, good luck.
ginga4lyfe, Mar 28, 1:38pm
Thanks, I will be putting a pertronix kit in as soon as i can, im busy trying to pull the head off now. but it just will not budge, iv taken the head bolts right out, and wacked it a far hard blow a few times, and the wood just splits instead of the head budging haha, but yeah, Ill be replacing the gaskets anyways, and hopefully the new head + intake+carb's are a good replacement, if not ill atleased have 2 sets of everything, oh and yes, the car was sitting for a long time, an old timer owned it, and practicly never used it, the wife forced him to rid of it, were a young bloke bought it drove it a little while ( from the old blokes place with a blown clutch to his place, then i bought it for 400 and drove it from north shore on the dead clutch to Papatoetoe, were iv replaced the clutch and the brake cylinders then after getting WOF and reg desided to investigate my carb high idle problem ( that was my mistake hahah )
ruaphu, Mar 28, 4:40pm
Sweet as, best of luck, sorry no help with getting head apart from bryte force. Also from experience, change the brake fluid too, it will no doubt be 'shot'Have fun.
ginga4lyfe, Mar 30, 11:45am
YAY! I got the head off, using a screw driver and a hammer, funny how that worked so easily after nothing else did though, though the gasket is stuck on both the head and block, any way to scrape the remenents of the gasket off with out damaging anything!
jasongroves, Mar 30, 11:53am