As I understand it, you can get an exemption to use harness belts on an open car, (Fraser/Lotus Seven etc.) without the need for the Competition Licence, 2 events a year and the authority card (renewed annually).
Has anyone managed to get the exemption for a closed car?
My spaceframe chassis had beefed up belt mounts (plated, tubed and threaded) when the chassis was restored way back in about 1994, with fixings just behind the seat at neck height. Later, the belts were looped around part of the rear hoop structure, with a bar between the backstays.
Now I have retired from racing, going back to an inertia reel belt means a body off job and chassis modifications to locate the reel correctly.
Although potentially, another body off restoration may be on the cards in the future, it would be nice to be able to put the car straight back on the road as is for a while.
I think the issue back in the day was the roll cage and not wearing a helmet when on road sections. There is better roll cage foam now and most wear peltor etc comms sets on road sections. US toyota sienna van has integrated seats. http://st.motortrend.com/uploads/sites/10/2016/05/2016-toyota-sienna-limited-minivan-rear-seat.png Usually LVV stuff for enclosed with four point harness etc - hulme, tomcar, etc
esprit,
Sep 4, 6:17pm
Only way to do it is if the car was originally type approved to use harness belts. Not allowed without an authority card for any other car. Been through that before.
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 1:42am
Scroth do an "E" marked 6 strap belt which passes the german standard and is road legal in nz. put them in and they should be passed. my local vtnz was surprised when he tried to fail my toy over belts
kartracer75,
Sep 5, 6:05am
You have to have an authority card to drive with a harness on the road.
kazbanz,
Sep 5, 7:21am
I get that they can't be used. So a car for regular road use and race use has to have both. Ive never understood why.
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 7:36am
you do not
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 7:40am
they can be used provided they comply with safety regs. these are the 'E' marks i spoke of. this is an EU specand if the belt omplies and it fits the mounts fitted by the car maker go for it. the safety regs cover the buckle and its operation. ie a rerd push button to release it and it must release all straps with one push
socram,
Sep 5, 8:19am
If you saw the original mountings as fitted by the manufacturer, you'd realise why modifications were essential!
Seats as such do not exist. The pedals are adjustable but the seat back is effectively part of the bodyshell with a padded covering.
The seat base is the floor (fibreglass) and does in fact sit about 50mm below the lowest chassis rail, also with a removable seat cushion.
I do have a set of 'E' belts so maybe I'll see how we get on with those.
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 8:34am
socram, is it possible to get a belt wrap around the frame in question. this might solve your problem
socram,
Sep 5, 12:08pm
Not really Bill. The fibreglass body drops over the space frame chassis.
The chassis is all square section tube as per the pic above and was totally restored. The new belt mounts were tubed, plated and threaded, right through the chassis, leaving just a tapped hole either side of and just behind my neck.
The harness belts are fine, with a centre release, but there is no way an inertia reel could be fitted, hence my query. As it is a fibreglass coupe, ironically, if I cut the roof off and turned it into a Spyder, being a spaceframe it would probably get through!
I can't quite work out why you can get an exemption on an open car, but not a closed car.
fordcrzy,
Sep 5, 1:36pm
Your gonna need an authority card whether or not they are E marked as the fixing points arent factory. just get a clubmans licence which doesnt require a med cert every year and do a couple of gymkanas a year with it.
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 2:07pm
i used my open kit car on the road for 2 years and did not need an exemption certificate. the exp cert is for rally cars using comp belts only. do the mounts you have decribed use 7/16 unf threads. this is the std for seat belt mounts all over the world. if so check with a certifier as to the type of belt you can use. remember to read the regs for the type of car and argue your case from there.
Obviously the rules change depending on the date of registration etc however in any particular case if your belts don't comply with that list then you need an exemption cert.
Can't see where it matters if its a closed car or an open. It either complies with the rules or it needs an exemption cert.
My BIL had to get an exemption cert for his classic as when it went for compliance there was no suitable position for the mounts. Front up to appropriate person pay lots of $$$ and exemption cert fitted. Solved.
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 3:22pm
good point supernova. socram what make of car is this?
socram,
Sep 5, 3:29pm
As I read the rules, I got the impression that there was no exemption whatever for any closed car using harnesses, (other than with the authority card that is) but there was the possibility for open cars. Make of belt is irrelevant at this stage, it is just the general principle of being able to use harness belts as opposed to an inertia reel belt.
Yes, the mounts are all 7/16" UNF. The car has a (removable) rear roll hoop and back stays. (There is also a front removable diagonal but that would only be used for competition and isn't required for road use, so that is irrelevant.)
bill-robinson,
Sep 5, 3:43pm
what make of car. what rules have you read. what does it need to comply with some basic questions which will help those trying to answer
The original welded on tab (see #10) for the driver's inertia reel was located more to the outside of the chassis. I can't bolt an inertia reel using the new mounts, as it would be too far inwards.
esprit,
Sep 6, 5:52am
Doesn't matter whether the belts are "E" marked or not.
I have a Lotus which has E-Marked harnesses in them, which are road legal without an Authority card. However, my car is type-approved for them and I had to supply the documentation as such to prove this when the car was complied for road use here in NZ. This is something that only the manufacturer can do by going through the SVA/WVTA approval system in Europe or via an equivalent system.
If your car didn't have them as new then you'll need an Auth card.
Unless it's a modern track-specialist car like a Porsche GT3/RS, Lamborghini Trofeo etc who went through the expense of doing it, you've got NO chance of doing it legally without an Auth card.
It's not legal, but plenty of people run harnesses as well as their three-point lap/sash belts, and just tuck the harnesses out of the way at WOF time,
bill-robinson,
Sep 6, 6:02am
does the car need a cert to be used here ?
socram,
Sep 6, 7:18am
No Bill, it has been road legal here for many years and was on the road right up until I decided to trailer it, a few years ago. Rego is on hold. I have owned the car since April 1991 and I think it arrived in this country 1983. The manufacturer no longer exists and they only ever built 198 of this particular version. Just two are in NZ. Nothing to do with LVVTA as the car is standard anyway.
I do know of a couple of people who have imported other models (same body shape and construction) and had an horrendous time getting compliance.
Those with the earlier plywood chassis, an even worse time - not surprisingly!
If I still had a competition licence and if I did 2 events a year and therefore got the authority card, no problem. However, just because I retired from competition, it seems I am stuffed for using it on the road.
Taking a Clubsport licence and a couple of club events a year, is a way around it, but my initial query was to see if anyone had managed to get an exemption without doing that.
The non-expiry dated 'E' harness belts are fine instead of an FIA belt with an expiry date. Same fixing.
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