Is it the same with oil heaters as with cars in that the hotter and more often the oil gets the faster it turns to crap.
How long dose the oil in the column heater last before it becomes to costly to use
motorboy2011,
May 26, 3:54am
oil in heaters will be fine forever, 1 it gets no where as hot as in an engine, and 2 it does not get any carbon by-products in it from burning fuel.
cuda.340,
May 26, 4:05am
how hot are you talking about!
v8_mopar,
May 26, 4:12am
Well that's it just how hot does it get. You can touch some parts of a hot engine but but most is to hot. Just like a column heater you can only touch it for 3-4 seconds.
Was just thinking they not to unalike with oil life
v8_mopar,
May 26, 4:16am
Ok what happens to the useability of oil once its past its usefulness
clark20,
May 26, 4:18am
Cost is not a problem as they are still 100% efficent, all the electrical power is turned into heat
v8_mopar,
May 26, 4:20am
so cos its not lubricating anything the cost per kw does not change!
cuda.340,
May 26, 4:20am
oil in a column heater is not the same oil as in an engine, it's also not under shear fiction so it doesn't wear out. oil in an engine doesn't wear out due to heat, its due to fiction & impurities.
v8_mopar,
May 26, 4:27am
that does make sense cuda but would that also apply to the oils in a vat. keep it clean and its always useable
mark.52,
May 26, 4:33am
"Oil in a vat"!
What sort of oil are you talking about!
Food grade vegetable/grain oils will deteriorate with heat. Heat too much or for too long, the molecules will break down, and they'll become a serious source of 'bad cholesterol' if consumed.
Engine oil is a mineral oil. It can withstand pretty high temperatures. The oil is prevented from overheating by running it through an oil cooler, or simply by proximity to the coolant in the water jacket. Typically it wouldn't get much hotter than the overall temperature of the engine, around 85-90 degrees, although the ''spot heat" in some places might be quite a bit higher.where it is squirted or runs onto the exhaust valve stems, for example.
As stated above, impurities, worn bits of metal, condensation is what damages engine oil. Plus some engine oils are a higher spec than others and can last longer before changing is needed.
bitsy_boffin,
May 26, 4:34am
You need to understand: 1. energy can neither be created, nor destroyed, it can only be converted from one form, into another form 2. electricity is a form of energy 3. heat is a form of energy 4. apart from heat, your oil column heater has no other energy outputs (practically)
So therefore, all the electricity your electric heater takes in, is converted to heat.
The fact that oil is used as a buffer is unimportant to the equation, your oil can be substituted (and is) for bricks, or ceramic, or . and it's still 100% efficient.
foxdonut,
May 26, 5:39am
That's all pretty much correct, but the issue isn't 100% energy efficiency, its "potential efficiency". I don't know the answer in this instance, but if the oil in the heater (for example) makes 1.0 degree per watt of electricity when its new, but over time decays to a point where its only able to make .9 degrees per watt because of its oil state then the column heater has become less efficient than when it was new and will require more electricity (probably measured in time rather than wattage) to achieve the same results.
The real issue is that column heaters are expensive. Get a gas heater, they better.
cuda.340,
May 26, 5:41am
get a gas heater & then go get a dehumidifier to absorb all the moisture the gas heater puts out whilst the flame is burning. get a heat pump.
mark.52,
May 26, 5:50am
So, what happens to the extra energy put into the heater that (you claim) is not being converted to heat!
bitsy_boffin,
May 26, 6:05am
Nope.In this country, we obey the laws of thermodynamics.
tonyrockyhorror,
May 26, 7:51am
Oil column heaters are not expensive in any regard - they're cheaper to buy yet just as energy efficient as any other form of electric resistance heating. An unflued gas heater (LPG), however, costs more to run than an electric heater on a $/kWh basis. Then there's the issue of all the moisture being pumped into the room increasing the humidity and thus the cost to heat the room increases further, since dry air requires less heat to raise its temperature by the same amount, not to mention the discomfort of the damp when the heating is not used.
foxdonut,
May 26, 11:11am
No, there's no "extra" energy, the energy remains constant to the element. its the speed at which the oil absorbs the heat from the element and transfers it to the case that's in question - the assumption being there is a finite amount of energy can only ever be stored in the element that doesn't exceed a the point at which transfer takes place in the oil.
I think its like adding salt to water to increase its boiling point, the question being does heating the oil in a column heater for a long enough time alter it in a way that it changes its state (and does this state produce less [or even more]) heat transfer to the columns.
I don't know the answer.
v8_mopar,
May 26, 3:24pm
Tis the question. Does it break down with heat or over time.
Also I cant find what type of oil it is!
cuda.340,
May 26, 5:12pm
by the time the oil column heater has any noticable reduction in performance it will be in an inorganic rubbish collection somewhere. i have seen the oil in a column heater, not saying they're all the same but the oil i watched drain out was clear like water with a rather putrid odour about it.
motorboy2011,
May 26, 5:32pm
I know the oil in high voltage mains transforemers has some other stuff in it, bad stuff that gives you cancers
directorylist,
May 26, 5:34pm
The oil only transfers the heat around a larger surface area. The element inputs 1w of heat, the oil absorbs 1w of heat and releases it.
A column heater improves heat transfer by increasing the surface area the heat is disapated over. rather than magically making more heat.
Oil break down effects its lubrication properties not its heat capacity. Even if its heat capacity did, you'd still get all the heat released by the element transferred into the atmosphere, otherwise you'd break a fundamental property in physics :)
ema1,
May 26, 7:34pm
Like all things in life they have their life span. Engine oil is subject to deterioration by contamination/friction wear of the combustion process/moving parts which doesn't occur in a sealed situation like an oil column heater. One of the main functions of oil in any engine besides lubricating is efficient heat dispersal and if the oil isn't doing that effectively their is a reason for that. Oil quality reduces with age, due to as said above plus mechanical or other problems that are beyond design spec causing excessive heat & contamination. Short running believe it or not produces a high degree of condensation in engines isn't being driven off due to those short run engines not in lots of cases reaching their efficient operating temperatures. Short running with it's inherent not running at normal operating temperatures is one of the major cause factors of vastly shortened engine life. This can also be greatly affected by seasonal/climatic & weather conditions at any given time, the variables that have big influences are indeed vast . There are things that can be done to alleviate the worst vagaries of extreme climate engine problems, purely it's comes down to the vehicle owners to be pro active to adjust things to suit those conditions, again it boils down to regular maintenance which a large number of NZ'ders are devoid of knowledge or aptitude in doing.
aredwood,
May 26, 10:39pm
It depends how much you pay for electricity. Assuming a 9kg bottle fill costs you $30 then that works out to 24c per Kw/hr to run that heater.
dunn28,
May 26, 11:06pm
oil in a column heater works pretty much in reverse to the oil used for cooling in a electrical transformers, an yes the oil will become unstable over time as it losses it's thermal stability . Depending on the type of oil ituses will determine itscycle life IE how many times it can be heated an cooled an still go back to it's original state this is where specifically designed synthetic oils come in. depending on price of the heater will largely determine its oil type ,this causes the internal coil of the heater to heat up to much thus boiling or burning the coil causing carbon build up which over time will restrict the oil flow,.
v8_mopar,
May 26, 11:43pm
This thread has become very interesting with lots of differing info and thoughts
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