If you guys are so worried about it, let them drive with any sized engine they want. Just make sure that no vehicle is able to travel faster than 100 kph.
i-n-horz,
Jul 3, 9:06pm
As you had typed."Poor learner judgement combined with gutless cars. Pull out, have no power".to correct the issue a driver training program from an early age throughout the school years, this would in the best part give learner drivers a better judgement to recognize their own ability and that of the vehicle they are driving allowing for the driver to pull out into an intersection at the correct interval with the use of HP they have at his/her disposal. I was making a point by using a cyclist limited HP to enter an intersection.it's not the HP but the ability to know when to enter an intersection correctly with what HP you have.if it was the other way around well yes! you would have a pile of slow & minimal HP cars,bikes,cyclist & trash at every intersection. Respect would have to play a very big part in the overall training.if you don't do the training your not issued a licence.if you don't learn to respect your not issued a licence. If you lose respect for other road users by endangering lives or blantantly breaking the law to the extreme your vehicle is crushed.if the vehicle does not belong to you your fine/sentence is then extended to suit.on the 3rd count the vehicle is crushed no matter who owns it. After the earlier convictions a person should know better than to lend a vehicle to the offender the offender will then suffer the consequences of his/her actions by the law as well as the vehicles owner.
r15,
Jul 3, 9:26pm
i would love to see driver training, but all the commuinists would want me to foot the bill.user pays. no training money = no license
wrong2,
Jul 3, 9:31pm
yeah & when im drifting i get into more trouble having such an excellent responsive car that i do now
if i was forced to have a less responsive car i wouldnt be able to drift at such high speed that i can at the moment
so whats your non-point worth now aye
i-n-horz,
Jul 3, 9:41pm
Yeah fair enough.but if it was part of the schooling curriculum such as woodwork,sports etc it shouldn't be a problem after all the kids are there to learn their next steps in life for when they leave school and you can guarantee a high.very high percentage will be future road users.
antojess,
Jul 3, 9:55pm
Yes agreed the driver of any vehicle needs to understand the capabilitys of that individual vehicle for example mrfixts surf needs alot more time than say a 300+hp WRX and so both vehicles require diferent handling in these situations to manuevour safely but given proper driving should both be able to pull out in the same size gap. And so restricting drivers untill they reach full liscence to a maximum hp rating would be a better idea than resticting cc rating as a 12a rotor engine is only 1200cc but even standard will take down a car with an engine twice the size. Anyone ellaborate more for me!
pollymay,
Jul 3, 11:02pm
You are welcome to drive the POS laser, it was so light in the back it would step out very easy especially with no fuel in the tank and skinny 175 tyres, it's also a shitbox and very dangerous in an accident which is fine cause my sister drives it now.
The fact of the matter is family V6's these days have 300hp, nissan G35 and the likes and they can get you into trouble but only if you're the sort to seek it. You can try address access of young stupid people to performance vehicles or people can harden the hell up and address the dickheads driving them directly. If they are crashing the cars then they are probably already speeding to hell, skidding the tyres and otherwise driving in a totally out of line fashion. God forbid they break one more law.
foxdonut,
Jul 4, 12:04am
Yeah, 'cause noone ever crashed a 1275GT mini right!
Engine restrictions are a stupid idea that will just result in an even more crooked economy for small engine cars and a shit load more administrative hassle when you get a WOF or spot check by the cops.
Those who say they could have got in more trouble "back in the day" if they had a WRX or EVO also could have got out of a lot of trouble with better brakes, suspension, driver safety etc.
The mouth breathers that buy fast cars and wipe themselves out are good for the gene pool. I've got plenty of compassion for my fellow man but when I hear about a bunch of retards hitting a tree at 120 in a 50 zone I don't even bat an eyelid.
You don't want kids speeding then teach them (YOURSELVES) the right way to do it and the next time you give your car a fang around on the motorway or drive like you're Ralph Schumacher on a busy public road, pay attention to who might be watching, chances are good its someone other than a cop with a radar gun.
big.b-lil.c,
Jul 4, 12:40am
there are some differences between first time riders and first time drivers. riders generally buy there own bike, drivers learn in the family car (yes there are exceptions but we are talking teen learners). a learner in a car must have a licensed driver there to instruct them, basically the learner car driver is (hopefully) drawing from the experienced drivers pool of knowledge. a learner biker cannot carry passengers (with good reason) and must build experience themselves. in this day and age most family's would struggle to buy a quality second or third car to fit learner driver restrictions. i would rather my kids (my 15year old girl is learning now) drive a late model car with abs, power steering, and hopefully never to be used airbags. than a cheep 1980's dx corolla with 30 year old seat belts the only safety equipment. r15 makes some good points re judgment, berg as usual has good points. unfortunately not everything can be taught in school and with the expense of driving its one. driver training theory (minimum) should be compulsory, for both bike and car before learners is granted and again before restricted and again before full. insurance is a totally different issue and has more to do with car ownership than learning to drive. experience is gained just after you need it. hopefully we/they dont do any damage during the learning experience
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 6:17am
LMFAO . You think THATS bad, maybe you should try an "old school" REAL4x4 like mine in the wet. With AT tyres on it, (31/10.5/15" or for the teenagers. .265/75/15) it takes almost NOTHING on the throttle to make it step out sideways on wet roundabouts. No matter which way you look at it, those are NOT small tyres & I can get them sliding any time I want on a 2.4 diesel .
The front brakes are so powerful that you have to use a gentle foot or you lock up the front, regardless of brand or condition of tyres, (4 pot calipers /300mm rotors/ pads 110mm x 60mm) Definitely built for stopping some pretty big loads, . imagine letting a newbie or arrogant teenage driver loose with THAT in the wet.
Point there is todays teenagers/ young adults are far more arrogant then when I was a teenager & they need to learn Patience & Trust in what todays adults are trying to teach them. Pushing boundarys is good for teenagers & it's partly how we weed out the twits & partly how we get sudden advances in all sort's of tech/sports etc etc . BUT todays teenagers are going FAR beyond a simple 'push" & getting killed or maimed at an ever increasing rate
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 6:24am
Some schools do have limited courses available, most don't. Son is doing a pre army/police "services" course & they provided a hire car & the fee's so he could go for his restricted licence.
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 6:26am
LOL . nice displayof family compassion for your sister
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 6:30am
Cool to hear you learnt so quickly, so how much faster do you think you may have been going, in a comparable aged Wrx/ vtec honda etc (age for age similar & size body/ engine) *** Food for thought for "foxdonut " @ #87
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 6:36am
Yes todays vehicles have far better brakes/ suspension &tyres &. even the roads are a lot better,. BUT the performance levels has increased to match anything that has done with handling improvements . In fact it's worse now because when max traction levels are reached. Old days, most cars lost traction & slid gently-ish Modern cars loose traction & SNAP slide
i-n-horz,
Jul 4, 7:45am
Yeah I don't understand why the whole driving thing isn't compulsory in every school since 99% or thereabouts of students will at some stage be road users and a good proportion for the whole of their lives. A good amount of deaths on our roads need not happen and I believe if driver training was compulsory throughout the schooling years there would be a drop in numbers of unnecessary road deaths. Considering we are all at the mercy of each others driving ability that it's not untill you lose someone close to you in a meaningless road accident that you would have wished the offender had a better understanding of driving to their ability with consideration and respect for other road users.
wrong2,
Jul 4, 8:30am
its so hard for you to accept the point , or it seems even able to realise what it is
the fact that young people speed isnt disputed
wrong2,
Jul 4, 8:33am
whats harder to imagine is the young guy whose hell bent on drifting buying one
the car he would prefer is what the thread is about (limiting their access to them really)
pollymay may feel anti towards more restriction - thats largly irrelevant. the point is that the current total lack of restrictions doesnt make sense
wrong2,
Jul 4, 8:38am
the better handeling cars are not making better drivers with more control
my opinion is that they are making the opposite
& when these young inexperienced wipe out in their too-fast-for-them cars , they are making a huge mess
if i had an evo it wouldnt have stopped me from losing it - i just would have done it at even faster speeds
teaching kids "how to drive" is hardly required for 100 km/h driving - you can handel that speed with minimal concentration
crashes by the young are due to irresponsibility
allowing the irresponsible free reign over car choice is how sensible !
big.b-lil.c,
Jul 4, 8:46am
does anyone have any figures on injury accidents involving young drivers on restricted licenses! (not fender benders due to learning experiences) and even better the vehicle they were driving. remember some drivers sit on learners or restricted license for years and are not learning anything so would be better described as unlicensed or inappropriately licensed
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 8:50am
Might pay to "define fender benders" . Some ppl here aren't thinking beyond their OWN personal basic human rights
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 8:58am
just redefine that a little .
1: Old days, most cars lost traction at a moderate to high speed & slid gently-ish with plenty of time to recover the vehicle ,.( more often then not)
2: Modern cars loose traction at a moderate to high or very high speed & SNAP slide with little or NO time to recover the vehicle, (more often then not)
3: lower speeds on smaller cars, often result in little to moderate damage
4: higher speeds result in moderate to severe damage
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 9:00am
Agree. What the likes of Pollys argument fails to understand is that the restrictions would ONLY be in place untill they obtain a FULL licence
wrong2,
Jul 4, 9:01am
yeah & i got my full bike & car before i turned 17
i dont think the restriction should be license based - it should be age
mrfxit,
Jul 4, 9:08am
Can't see why not the same current age limits plus licence type. Need better max penaltys with progressive levels for 1st & 2nd time offenses plus a 1 off "get out of jail card" *** Seen plenty of "older" teenagers that are . well .ummm . just as bad as the younger versions. Some of them are legally adults. not that it makes any difference to how they behave or their tantrums & demands
big.b-lil.c,
Jul 4, 9:27am
a fender bender might be scraping the car next when backing out of a supermarket car park, (learner looking back not thinking/knowing front will swing) or perhaps moving off from a give way sign and hitting the car in front because driver is looking for vehicles on the right to give way to and not notice car in front has stalled. minor damage that maybe a insurance claim but can be driven away from and will not cause a wof fail, perhaps apart from broken lights. and stays below police radar. anything that will cause a wof fail or traffic infringement notice or that cannot be driven away from is not minor. edit to add progressive penalties strikes me as a very good idea, those that learn early from their mistakes don't get knocked to hard. those who continue to endanger the public get a flogging. (not literally). also a time limit for each graduation of license. 18 months on learners and two years on restricted should be enough for anyone
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