Simple, they are a US company on their knees, Toyota is not a US company and far from being on its knees.
mm12345,
Sep 25, 5:52am
There's some truth in that.Then he started wanking on about Ayn Rand - it was pretty obvious the article was written by an extremist.I made it to the end, and read this: The ???emissions problem??? has been solved ??
I care.I'm glad that there are policies in place to severely punish people who "don't care" about poisoning the air I have to breathe.
tamarillo,
Sep 25, 2:38pm
Yep, and though this article is a bit extreme the same point is being made by others, including the BBC! That the emission requirement doesn't fit with consumers requirements. Still doesn't excuse vag though, they should have just not sold the diesels motor in question in places it couldn't pass, and worked with others to discuss the issue. Or waited till new tech came along, or just stuck to petrols. There's so much more to come over months ahead.
kazbanz,
Sep 25, 2:49pm
You couldn't be more wrong. The purpose of the tests that VW cheated are to ensure that a vehicle either does or does not meet emission laws in various countries/states. By failing the tests it is illegal for that vehicle to be driven on the road in the country/state of test. So its not about "greenies" The fallout is huge. Don't for a second think it can't affect our little pimple on the earths heiney. if it turns out those vehicles do not pass euro 5without cheating then they are illegal to be driven here too. Ie their compliance is invalid
I suspect that in fact many consumers do want clean economical well performing vehicles. There are two separate issues going on here. One is VAG use of the "defeat device" - which is explicitly prohibited in US and Euro legislation. They are 100% guilty on this - and it was a very bad thing to do regardless of any other arguments surrounding emissions testing and standards in general - which is the other issue.
I don't think there's any doubt that's going to need to be completely overhauled - as it's seriously flawed.Those flaws have allowed "some" distortion of the market.How much distortion - lord knows.Slowly that's going to come out though and it looks very much like "environmentally driven" market forces which resulted in 55% of the European car fleet now being diesel may have been an abject disaster.Petrol may be a much cleaner alternative, but even then when they test current generation petrol cars properly - so that "cycle-beating" (as opposed to emissions "defeat") is eliminated, then expect some nasty surprises, particularly with turbo/supercharged TSI/FSI, which will suffer many of the issues as TDI diesels - because they're now almost the same in terms of combustion chamber pressures, temperatures, and lean stratified injection systems.
kazbanz,
Sep 25, 3:18pm
For little ol NZ heres a thought. if The states pulls emission pass from these vehicles. AND Europe pulls euro 5then immediately the NZ fleet fitted with those engines are non compliant. BUT will the LTNZ etclet sleeping dogs lie with cars already on our roads! Also -what about cars on dealers lots or intransit to NZ! --scrap metal!
mm12345,
Sep 25, 3:19pm
It's also wrong in terms of the particular emissions that the affected VWs were emitting in bucket loads. While NOx is also regarded as a greenhouse gas, the major concern is local pollution / health effects from the NOx itself or secondary products.It's a serious health issue in large cities in Europe as well as the US - particularly LA hence the tight and long-standing emissions laws in California.
mm12345,
Sep 25, 3:29pm
Wait and see what happens in Aus perhaps.Figures I read suggested that at least 50,000 of the 11 million are in Aus.That's about a $1.5 billion problem for VAG in Australia if true. I wouldn't expect NZ authorities to be proactive.
westwyn,
Sep 25, 3:56pm
I don't think it will come to that- for a variety of reasons, although primarily, the emission standard issue is non-compliance to EPA Euro test cycle requirements, which are stricter than the current NZ fleet requirements. We build "lag" into our regulations primarily because we're a standards taker, not a standards maker, nation- we take what the world market can give us, we don't dictate. (I know that's simplifying it a little, but in essence, that's the guts of it).
Our diesel emission standards for new would probably (and I'm not confirming this, please take on face value) still allow for those vehicles to pass our CURRENT standard for new, even if re-rating were to occur.
Interesting that form a marketing POV, VW NZ have pulled the sale of all diesel stock at this time.
NZTA (or more specifically MOT (Environment) and EECA have been watching all this very carefully, and given the "Taker" vs "maker" status in NZ for new, it's fair to say there's not likely to be fallout of the "pull car from fleet" variety.
Sales spanking by the public, yes- and you might find it difficult to get top money for that Bluemotion 2012 Polo right about now!
mm12345,
Sep 25, 5:11pm
Could be. Euro 5 - which IIRC is the standard that needs to be met here is 0.18g NOx/km. Euro 6 is less than 1/2, at 0.08g
So perhaps they can get the VWs here to comply by software.We'll have to wait and see.
US NOx emission standards are incredibly complex. with fleet averages, traded credits/deficits etc, and that's just federal EPA before getting in to state regs like CARB.Best figure I can find is a fleet average of 0.07g/mile - so 0.043 g/km, which looks tougher than Europe, except test methods are probably completely different, it's a fleet average, their emissions rules allow for age of vehicle (new car vs one that's done 50,000 miles which is allowed to emit more), in "real use" they are allowed to exceed test limits by 1/3 etc.
butterfly05,
Sep 26, 12:14am
Pretty shifty sounding.Thats all car dealer talk for "I think were #@%#% but im going to keep up appearances until proven otherwise".
nahh that's not fair.--Keep in mind I am not -never will be a VW fanboy VW the manufacturer and specifically their diesel engine division are the people at fault. I bet you could put 100 service managers at VW dealerships on a lie detector and they would pass is saying they hadn't a clue the software was there. The same applies to Company executives in the dealerships.
ema1,
Sep 26, 12:37am
Probably brain washed to such an extent that lie detector gear would be in a word."defeated"!-
butterfly05,
Sep 26, 12:37am
The EX VW CEO doesnt think that he's already fingered out a bunch of managers as responsible.The top brass are clearly trying to pass the buck.
butterfly05,
Sep 26, 12:40am
KAZDont get me wrong I feel for all the dealers as they've done nothing wrong and THEY are going to be part of the group that actually pays for all this some of them could even fold up on this.Im just reading between the lines here.
ema1,
Sep 26, 12:42am
Could be a degree of "Teflon" element involved as seemly often is the case in the higher echelons of commercial management.
gammelvind,
Sep 26, 12:57am
This photo was doing the rounds on Facebook in the UK this morning.
Most of the vehicles involved in Europe are diesels. So the emissions are nitrous oxide, bad for human health but not so bad for the Planet apparently.By buying diesels the owners thought they were doing their bit for the Planet. Cutting back on CO2 emissions. Not realising that the softwarewas rigged to give a false reading when tested. sometimes N2O emissions were 7 times higher than the legal limit. Ya can't win.This has been going on since 2009 and only now been discovered.
seadubya,
Sep 26, 1:24am
Thanks for the link, it made for interesting reading.
butterfly05,
Sep 26, 1:36am
When the US govt is so controlled by corporations and big $$$ theres no real surprise to anyone that keeps themselves informed.And by that I mean not sitting in front of the TV watching what mediaworks and TV1 regurgitate direct from the cronies in the US.
stevo2,
Sep 26, 2:13am
Thats either real funny or the couple of beers Ive had made that seem funny but Im still laughing.
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