anyone out there have any info on where this agenda is heading?
intrade,
Jun 14, 9:04pm
now thats the stuff giving me headachs i find electronic engine diagnostics more easy to make sense then the goble de guke the governments come up with and attach fines and prison sentence or both to, if you ask me there is no wonder there is so much terroists and people joining terrorist groupes when the real thugs are the governments them selfs who cause terror .
clark20,
Jun 14, 9:18pm
Right. terror in trying to make safe workplaces (or in this case clubs), I don't agree with it myself but don't go calling them this for trying to help people out.
vtecintegra,
Jun 14, 9:20pm
Learning the English language might be a good start.
tweake,
Jun 14, 9:26pm
i'm sitting on the fence a bit on this one. its good to see the safety message being forced through. but with volunteer groups it can mean a dodgy bugger can hide behind the volunteer status. so a club member or general public can be hurt by this person with no comeback on them. those clubs who have the right people and are professional about what they do i don't think it will worry them to much.
the other thing is employers getting staff to do dodgy stuff "as a favor" ie unpaid volunteer, to get around the rules.
ozz1,
Jun 14, 9:27pm
bit harsh. vetch. he just needs a full stop. or a comma. every now. and then.:)
teamgjt,
Jun 14, 10:41pm
Im all for safety, the problem our club will face is, we are internet based, and often get together via a users cruise forum, our committee is based in chch ,but can or would be held responsible for an event that takes place in Auckland which we would have limited control over on the day. And If a member was hurt while preparing their car for an upcoming event, would we be held responsible? seems silly, but not an impossible scenario by the proposed new standards.
would the beach hop organisers be culpable for an accident in the south island if a hot rodder was injured heading to this event.
The above is not intended to offend the beach hop organisers, but is the reality of the new proposal.
morrisjvan,
Jun 14, 11:10pm
It would be nice to live in a free country ,where the government does what we tell it to and not the other way around.
tweake,
Jun 14, 11:36pm
the devil will be in the fine print and also the interpretation of it by the enforcing agency.
i would hope they would realize someone prepping a car at home is not under control of the club. but someone working on a car at the hop would be.
clark20,
Jun 15, 12:47am
And you will find people wanting to stop accidents if possible, reducing deaths and injuries where practical is what a government should do.
gunhand,
Jun 15, 12:55am
Yes and you would have all the inhabitants telling it 4000000 different things, cause that's the way "I" want it.
tamarillo,
Jun 15, 1:12am
Just may be a bit of scaremongering here. From my read I get that a purely voluntary group will not be a pcbu and be ok. It will only become one if it employs someone, which seems fair enough to me. But then the writer suggests that if one volunteer directs another that now counts, but maybe the writer needs to brush up on what employ means, and that it must include reward. Their advise from work safe contradicts that but they don't make or define law. If law ends up being as stated and work safe tries to include a club with no employee ever then it just needs to go to court for our judiciary to interpret and enforce law correctly. One way of making very sure is not to direct but suggest. By never advising, telling, or asking someone to do something, a club person may help another without any insurance liability problem should it go wrong. Frankly I skim read last half, these things are too boring, so if I missed an essential bit I'm sorry. Am sure a few pompous control freak club committees will get upset and start demanding mountain do paperwork over this!
sr2,
Jun 15, 1:26am
How well can you speak a 2nd language?
teamgjt,
Jun 15, 3:55am
just re-read the article from your take , quite a differant meaning and less threatening to the club, thanks for the differant angle, gives food for thought.
nzjay,
Jun 15, 4:48am
It is a worry because what I have seen of WorkSafe is that they are a law unto themselves and will pursue any avenue they think will get an outcome that "warns" others. This means a big fine as an "incentive" to others. No small voluntary Club has the resources to defend a test court case mounted against them. The policy seems to be. someone HAS to be responsible for any accident and they WILL pay.
I've heard of a scenario where a small Club might make a one off payment to their Secretary of $25 in recognition of the extra time that person might have made in say, researching and updating the Clubs Constitution for instance. The Club has now made that person an employee and is responsible for all the Health and Safety carryon that goes with that. If that person trips on their chair leg at their home, while carrying out Club business. the Club will bear the full force of the legislation. Woe betide the Club if they haven't done ALL the documentation required by an employer. Until there is a very clear clause exempting voluntary Clubs and leisure groups , I would be very wary and not rely on interpretation.
teamgjt,
Jun 15, 3:56pm
Thats what we were thinking, we often let volunteers take home left over prizes ,or even sausages or bread from bbqs, which would then constitute payment, and if the wording of the legislation includes volunteers as employees ,then its a big issue for any club that that operates on a large scale geographically .
bill-robinson,
Jun 12, 4:10am
++ 1
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