High team I have a friend who is asking about his VW engine lamp on. Has had a scan done by VW agents who state that the catalytic converter needs replacing for $2500. He says it doesn't seem to be any different in power and performance. Is this a common fault and if so what actually happens to the cat? Your input will be appreciated. even yours Jazz.
Cheers in advance CeeBee
bjmh,
Jun 1, 10:27pm
I don't know about VW but I had a Suzuki swift that had the same,we scanned it. replaced the cat and then reset the light. its been good since.The insides of the cat had started to disintegrate. sorry I think your friend just needs to bite the bullet,the joys of owning a modern vehicle.
ceebee2,
Jun 1, 10:39pm
Cheers bjmh
msigg,
Jun 1, 10:58pm
Give it a good thrashing at motorway speeds for half an hour see if any different, trouble is once they are on there way out that's it, but worth a try.
intrade,
Jun 1, 10:59pm
whom was the vw agent ? unless it was gilltrap prestiege then i have my doubts the diagnosys was done professionally
intrade,
Jun 1, 11:00pm
here is what i would like to know what is the km milage of the car and how is it used? like is it used to just go shopping and nana driving as slow as possible at all times? Whom scanned it what scanner was used ?
ceebee2,
Jun 1, 11:05pm
It has done 150km, used open road very frequently (500km round trips every month with quite long local trips every week)
WR Phillips in New Plymouth.
intrade,
Jun 1, 11:06pm
what happens to the cat well it can get blocked up or it can wear out or it cen melt down. these are the 3 things that can happen to a cat. so if it melted down and you fit a new one because a code told you so. What do you think is going to happen to the new cat?
intrade,
Jun 1, 11:17pm
at 150.000km we can rule out that it is worn out and no short trips suggests that its probably not blocked up , so leaves the question. is it melted down or is the codes they pull a wrong assumption and the problem is actuarly something complete different setting this code? I think you want a secound opinioin on that from what you answered in post 7 i shall go and hunt whom it was in new plymouth who posted on here once, I dont know how professioanl that guy is but he seemd not to be a complete muppet.
saki,
Jun 1, 11:30pm
W R Phillips were around in NP long before you were born intrade.
tamarillo,
Jun 1, 11:42pm
Hi, scary money! The cat has a sensor on it, so someone needs to ensure that 1. Sensor is working ok, and 2. There are no leaks anywhere that might be providing a false signal. If it is cat failure, which is not uncommon, check aftermarket specialists as someone might be bring in alternatives. If you check eBay you'll find lots of them far far cheaper. There's a few VW parts people around, indeed Midas might have a source. If all else fails he'd be better off importing one and getting Midas to fit it. But needs a bit of careful elimination first if it was me.
intrade,
Jun 1, 11:45pm
i think for 2500$ you can work in a secound opinion , i gurantee ! you dont conclude from a scan that a vw needs a new cat. There is a reason why its a goner at 150,000km and that reason must be found and fixed first. just because somone is old dont means they know what they are doing on modern cars unless they spend training in new technology every year . stuff that did fly in th 1980s wont apply on a 2001 vw no more and you need oem capable scanner for vag. there is over 20 tausend codes on my rosstech scanner now for vw another 99% oem capable aftermarket scanntol like autologic whom is multiplatform as where rosstech is v-a-g only
ceebee2,
Jun 1, 11:47pm
Thanks intrade and tamarillo. I have already suggested another opinion / scan. If Cat is knackered will also suggest aftermarket.
Actually I recall Jazz had some very good contacts for VW parts etc. Will await his input.
saki i wont need to look at your links i am saying they need a secound opinion not because of me claiming they dont know what they are doing but because you dont part with 2500$ unless you are absolutly sure about the spend . a further 250$ spend by a secound professional wont make the bill much larger in the end if they both conclude the same thing and the same cost.
intrade,
Jun 2, 12:17am
here is what i want to hear what is the code ? how was the code determant what was the exhaust gas reading what are the fueltrims at like is fueltrim lean or is the fueltrim correction actuarly at 0 % longherm and short therm? is the o2 sensore mesured with a scope and maches what the scantool graph shows. That is the sort of testing you need to do befor you fit a new cat. Also mass airlow meter reporting wrong vaccume leek all could lead to lean situations and are what melt down a cat or is all well and its just a cat whom happend to die premture. you wont know unless you rule any other possible cause out first. Is the sensor who set the code actuarly just a liar and the cat efficiency code was set because of that? the reason must be determent befor you fit a new cat!
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 12:37am
I agree with intrade, you want to find the cause. You need someone who you can trust knows what they are doing and will do more than just scan the code. If it was me I would start by looking at the fuel trim and as intrade says a careful look at what those 02's are doing with a scope as well as a scan tool. This is important as what you see on a scan tool in "scope mode" (live data graphing) is not necessarily what you will actually see if you hook the scope up directly.
Now assuming the cause is found, repaired and you do actually need a cat. I think I would start with a message to the VW wreckers near me as they look like they would have suitable stock. I have not tried them yet but am pretty sure there website is eurowreckers.co.nz they also advertise on here. I drive past them daily and see their stock from the road.
Otherwise there are bound to be plenty at wreckers etc. You haven't given us any idea of model/engine etc so can't really help you beyond that. If I knew what it was I might be able to point you towards a brand new one for a few hundred dollars even.
Also, sometimes if they are just sooted up you can get away with cleaning them. Wouldn't hold out much hope though and probably not worth trying if you are going to pay the labour to pull it off and put it back on.
ceebee2,
Jun 2, 12:48am
Thanks Jazz and intrade. totally agree before big spend up to find code result and cause. Thanks guys for your input.
Jazz the engine he tells me is 2L (Non turbo) jap import car, we are both offshore at this stage so cannot source more info sorry.
msigg,
Jun 2, 1:34am
Well there you do have to be careful about how much you spend, the car has an approx value of $4500 so you don't want to go over spending on it, some would suggest a cheap cat and be done with , if it lasts another 2-4 years then its a throw away car at $1000 - $1500, lots more maintenance could be coming up too so yea thinking time.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 2:13am
Ok, well that gives us some idea. I am expecting it to be the basic old 2.0 as found in the Golf. Single pipe, one cat, very straight forward.
Should make for fairly easy diagnosis of what caused the problem too. If the Cat really is at fault and is damaged, it's generally caused by a combustible mixture making it's way to the converter and burning. So, you could have a misfire getting raw fuel in to the exhaust, a rich mixture combined with an exhaust leak etc etc.
That's the cause you want to go after.
Then you can replace the cat. Just be aware, if you go for a really cheap afermarket cat, they are usually extra fragile, so if there is any trace of the original issue it's going to break down even more quickly than the original unit. This can be a good case for using a secondhand one from an ideally low km vehicle.
Perhaps check in when you are back for further advice. This is much the same deal for any modern vehicle BTW, so any good mechanic should be able to deal with it.
If it was down this way I would have been interested to have a quick look at it for interests sake.
franc123,
Jun 2, 3:35am
I'd be suspicious of spark plug and coil operation before anything else, worn ignition components and misfiring, whether its noticeable or not kill cats pretty quickly and usually leads to efficiency codes being logged. Also especially since its an import you need to be checking very carefully all the underbonnet plumbing and intake plastics for splits and leaks, very common on ageing VW's.
ceebee2,
Jun 2, 4:00am
Cheers Jazz and franc, will instruct owner to perform all the basics first.
franc123,
Jun 2, 4:13am
One other thing that comes to mind is a poor earth connection to the downstream 02 sensor which caused weird readings, I had this on a Mk5 Golf IIRC a 2 litre one a while back, forget exactly what codes it was logging but it was either cat efficiency or a lean running code. The code never came back after fixing that. This incidentally was after an independent specialist who had looked at it before me said straight off that either or both the cat or the 02 sensor interface unit would need replacing! The owner wasn't entirely satisfied with that answer and neither was I, it took a bit of data analysing, research and road testing while looking at the data to finally decide what exactly to start checking
bigfatmat1,
Jun 2, 5:29am
Is it a cat ineffieciency code like p0420. I Have diagnosed a few vehicles with this code every time it has been spark plugs
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