Well it didnt work for me i drove a car id bought no reg or wof & got pinged driving it home by #cam $350 fines 30 demerit p[oints & the cop was going to impound the vehicle , but after a lot of arguing about legalities he then ripped the #plates off & confiscated them . So had to reregister it from scratch .
bwg11,
Oct 5, 2:33am
Apart from continuing to discuss police ethics can someone speculate on the reason for the increasing road toll?
Our roads are getting better and cars are getting safer. I'm about to make some assumptions, lets say virtually all our fleet have seat belts, around 85% of the fleet are post 1995 and will have ABS, 70% are post 2000 and will have airbags, 30% will be post 2006 and will have some form of stability control.
So why is the road toll so high?
EDIT: Just making the link work
flack88,
Oct 5, 2:47am
Theres a lot more people for start,many of them engrish a second language,people are getting dumber,they distracted,they never had to start out on a motorbike and get idea of physics,or drive a car or a truck with next to no brakes and got actually change gears to stop it getting out of control,they don't know to arrest a slide because they have never been allowed to get sideways!
tgray,
Oct 5, 2:52am
bwg11 wrote:
Our roads are getting better and cars are getting safer. /quote] And whilst our speed limits may be creeping up, the average actual speeds are coming down. Good example is the crawl along the motorways to work each morning. You don't get many car v car fatalities going 20-30kph.
ema1,
Oct 5, 2:52am
Plus who's paying when these slack uninsured un registered pricks come to grief then eh. answer =you and me the law abiding bill paying folks = the tax payer. and through high insurance premiums. I for one take a very dim view of anyone involved in a crash when an uninsured unregistered vehicle driver is to blame for any crash situation ! Getting reparation from some of them is like getting "blood from a stone" ! Frankly 3rd party insurance should be made compulsory like in UK and anyone not up to date with their insurance pays the consequence or has their car impounded . or crushed if they are recidivist types.
mechnificent,
Oct 5, 3:05am
That twenty eight days to get it legal thing is only in some parts of the country. It applies up north here, but if we take our unrego'd or wof'd cars south we get pinged with no leniency. not me. other people I know though.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 5:11am
Well the first graph does not appear to be population adjusted. so that's just total nonsense to start with.
Speculating, I know that we have some roads that have become horribly over utilised in the last few years with zero effort to even plan for upgrading them. SH2 between Waihi and Tauranga is one of those.
Policing. They simply are not policing the obvious risks properly. It's clearly based around nice easily measured little ticks in box's for review time. Why else would there be regularly a cop on Tauranga's Eastern link going for easy speed tickets on a road that as far as I am aware has had zero fatalities. While completely ignoring the alternative route that is so bad it had three serious accidents at once when I drove it some time ago.
Supposedly "newer vehicles" are not making the difference they should either. We have too many JDM puddle jumpers that might be "newer" but still lack even basic safety devices like a three point middle rear seatbelt. We need to stop pandering to the dealer lobbyests and stick to vehicles designed for international markets and higher speeds. This is especially true of work vans too, cab forward vans should have been banned from importation 10 years ago. Yet we still allow them due to a loophole for "existing" models.
I would also like to see some stats around the drink driving law change. The last I heard it made zero difference to the road toll as predicted by the governments own study. Now the millions spent implementing it could have been spent on something that would have saved lives for a start. What intrigues me is the effect it is having on tieing up Police resources with processing these extra tickets when said Police could otherwise be on the road looking for serious hazards.
Lastly, I would like to see an investigation in to the Police comms system. The few times I have called them they have seemed polite but inefficient, with one very dangerous exception. That was when they outright refused to contact a Police car and have them drive 500m to a land slide that had put basket ball sized rocks right accross the road which had caused a number of disabled vehicles to further block the road with a bank on one side and a cliff on the other.
Anyhow that's some of my thoughts. Also Chinese tourist drivers, I am sure that is a bigger problem than the government is letting on.
ree6,
Oct 5, 5:23am
Ok,how many millions were spent on the drink driving law change ? You obviously know because you've referred to it. How about, just for a change, you quantify one of your comments.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 5:43am
I have no interest in spending the time quantifying it. The time/reward is just not going to be worthwhile. My guess is the Government certainly won't be offering that figure to the public easily either for political reasons. But you are welcome to do it if you care that much about it. I will even help you where I can.
Here is some of what we would need to know to get you started:
* Cost of all those MP's in parliament for the readings. * Cost of researching and writing the policy * Cost of the scientific report on whether it would likely make a difference * Cost of training those enforcing the new legislation. * Cost to production and industry the Farmers who will lose their lives to suicide as their local pub is no longer financially viable (a surprisingly serious downside to this change) * Ongoing cost of Police hours enforcing the rule * Cost to the countrys production in terms of fines given out where the money would otherwise have been used for productive purpose * Court costs * Lost production through those who lose thier licence.
Probably a bunch of other factors I haven't thought of. What should be obvious, is the upfront and ongoing cost is significant. I would put it easily in the millions so far. You are most welcome to do your research and provide us with a more accurate figure.
However I suspect from your attitude from your question and in past that serious thought-provoking discussion is not what you are actually interested in.
ema1,
Oct 5, 5:55am
Bollocks, you sound like an anarchist. no I'll qualify that with . you are an anarchist numpty.clown, you're on your own here sunshine ! Ha ha I can visualize it now . you on a rickety soap box yelling and screaming to a phantom audience . all too funny !
gunhand,
Oct 5, 6:05am
Aaah the old why are we all dying on the roads debate. Yep this year is going to be quite high, not good. There seems to blame on certain cars and vans, can any statistic be givin that points toward such vehicles being over represented. I for one would be quite keen to see a list of vehicle types and numbers of each involved in fatals. Do they even collect what type of car it was? And I am yet to hear of any car causing an accident, they are after all an inanimate object until a human gets behind the wheel. And I will also like to bet vehicle failure is a very low cause of fatals as well. Bald tires and shoddy brakes or useless wipers and missing or not working lights etc are not the fault of the car either. The road conditions while not great rarely cause incident either. Yes, grit and other spillages may cause a problem, but again that's also a human doing. And if not swept up or removed for a long time its a failure in the system, mind you the people who do this can not be every where at once either. Sure after rain the roads become quite slick, but hey, whats one of the rules of driving? Drive to the conditions maybe? Same with sun strike, yea people get caught out, but guess what, just about all will persist in driving in such conditions, just watch them all, visors down hand over eyes going for it. From what I see every day it comes down to the driver dam near every time. Impatient, speeding, distraction, not driving to the conditions, ludicrous passing maneuvers, txting and talking on phone, drink and drug driving and so and so on. A lot of peoples driving talent ends at opening the drivers door. And that, like the above cover all ages, gender and race, don't blame one race as again from what I see daily its all sorts. Ive seen cars off the road in places that deify logic as to how they ended up there. We have a stretch of road that has many accidents, the road is bloody good if drivin at correct speed and advisory's remotely adhered to. And oddly in the very worst part they rarely crash, if at all, I don't recall any. IMO, Its 99% the driver, if not 100%. Yea, we all may have a "yea but I know of" incident and there is always exceptions to the rule. But guess what, in every fatal there is a human involved. Ok, If you were driving along and a large bolder dropped on ya roof and squished ya, that's bloody unfortunate and out of your hands, but again, roads etc are inspected and that hazard should have been found, but humans are very fallible.
ree6,
Oct 5, 6:40am
Don't try to quantify it because you can't. The MP's in parliament for the readings were getting paid anyway. The research was completed from stats already held by police, LTNZ and ACC. There was no scientific report on whether it would make a difference; it wasn't needed (see above). There was minimal training to those enforcing the law change and the cost was nil as they were getting paid anyway (it was done during normal work time) The cops enforcing the new law were already working and getting paid. No Court involvement so no Court costs. Lost licenses come down to demerits, not the new law. Farmer suicides due to this ? Doubt it.
And that's just picking on one point in your post.
fordstar1,
Oct 5, 7:02am
Im not sure I believe the original poster. Mall carparks are commercially operated so parking is by invitation as opposed to being a public access right of way like a road, street, beach. Since when do police ticket cars in commercially operated zones. I'm interested to hear if anyone has been ticketed by the police in such an area.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 7:48am
Shouldn't have wasted the effort on you.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 7:50am
It would be interesting to find out. From what I read in a report about Malls a while back, being that an enormous amount of trade was being lost to Malls because of people not having currently licensed vehicles, they would be a super tempting target. I wish I had kept the link because the proportion of unlicensed vehicles (or vehicles licensed online but without a label yet) was astounding.It was also a very interesting measure of poverty levels in various disctricts.
philltauranga,
Oct 5, 8:06am
#38. great post gunhand, yes there will always be contributing factors, how we react to them is what counts the most.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 8:19am
Sure, improve driving skills, no harm in that. It doesn't change the fact that safer cars and roads equal less fatalities though. It's simply active vs passive safety. It's equally foolish to have either one and not the other.
ree6,
Oct 5, 8:28am
Then stop posting on topics you know nothing about. Your opinion is fine, posting unmitigated bullshit as the truth isn't. Do some research, you obviously have the time on your hands.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 8:28am
Right car has a vague guide. The only problem is it doesn't represent the danger of cab forward vans very well. Same sort of reason a lot of those overall rating type tests fail to show the risk. It's an overall score and total failure of the leg area can only affect that score so much. Then you can make up for it to some degree by adding more airbags and "beepers" to score well in other areas.
Do havea look at the Tiida and some of the other popular Japanese products though to see what I am on about.
gunhand,
Oct 5, 8:29am
Yes, improve driver skills, Trouble is anyone can display perfect skills and do everything correct (and most know how to) when under supervision by someone doing a test or whatever, but as soon as the test is over they go straight back to their shit driving. Next time you drive with someone and they see a cop, or a cop is about, in front or behind, as soon as it is identified by the driver, watch, they immediately start doing everything correct. Except when said cop wasn't seen and they got caught, then the pissing and moaning begins. Even if doing no wrong just about everyone checks their speed, wonder why? Yes, they have been trying to make safer roads for years, always work being done. Yes cars are safer, yet the toll increases. Yes the population is increasing so of course more shit will happen.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 8:34am
What I suspect you might not realise (due to your location in the country) is how dangerous some of our roads have become up here. They just haven't kept up with the population increase at all, so even adjusting for the population increase statistically. the death rate would have to be higher. The statistics certainly seem to show it for these poor roads. It's also a huge cost to the country in lost productivity having traffic not moving efficiently.
ema1,
Oct 5, 8:34am
You just don't get it do you all cars ,trucks . no matter what the vehicle is. it's only as safe as it's driver. Drivers in this country that do get caught out find it difficult to accept blame even when clearly it's their fault !
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 8:35am
BTW. the increasing popularity of dash cams may go a long way to improving driver behaviour when unsupervised. I think it is something the Police could take more advantage of.
jmma,
Oct 5, 8:38am
Did you ever sell your old Fiat camper and if so is your conscience clear selling such a dangerous cab forward van?
gunhand,
Oct 5, 8:41am
The danger of forward cabs? You can not ban something that could be dangerous. can you? If you do that knives, forks weed eaters, lawnmowers, power drills and just about every item you can put in your hand should be banned because it is a potentially dangerous .Geez H&S is making life more difficult (and maybe safer) every day. More like taking any pre work thought process out of ones hands (i:e using ones brain) and using more signs and cones that people are over loaded and stop taking notice. Do you stand out side your local timber store (or other store) and read, comprehend and take notice of all the signage before walking in? No, didn't think so, who does? And yes cab forward isn't the best design but are they statistically over represented in fatals? Then you have to look at numbers in country Kms drivin per fatal etc etc and then break it down to some graph that no one can follow any way lol.
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