I agree regarding over the top health and safety. However I don't think that should be confused with what I am saying about cab forward vans. The thing with vans is there are loads of similarly priced safe alternatives. So unlike so many situations with Health and Safety now where you have to add significant cost to a job, there really is no down side.
With regards to safety, I read an excellent report specifically on cab forward van safety a couple of years ago but sadly couldn't find it again more recently. The statistics were GRIM. Chances of dieing in a low speed crash where you would literally walk away unscathed in a safer vehicle were high. Anecdotally I follow local crash news stories and every year just in this area there are usually several deaths that could have been avoided.
What saddens me most though is the guys driving them more often than not don't get a choice. It's the van they are issued by their boss, they are doing big km's and often in town so risk of accidents are high too. Sadly it's an age group that affects lots of young fathers as well.
Most other first world countries got rid of forward control vans years ago, we should be more active in following suit.
gunhand,
Oct 5, 8:57am
I agree, most driver of said vans wont have a choice, just like those that have to drive all night and half the day (legally or not) and at sunrise or sunset. No one will sit on the side of the road waiting for the hazard to clear or whatever due to work commitments etc. Could you imagine if you told your boss or work mates you stopped and waited for cloud cover or sun to move or whatever other hazard there was then proceeded? You would be laughed at and told to man up no doubt. Not, Yea good thinking mate you could have had or caused a crash otherwise. Not bloody likely. Can you give a case where a road caused a crash? This means the road was completely to blame, that means the driver was obeying the speed limit and all advisory's and yet some how the road caused it? And not a spillage, ice or wet. That is the drivers problem. I will admit poor drainage on some roads wont help, but again it comes down to. drive to the conditions.
gunhand,
Oct 5, 9:07am
Hows it going, weather warming up up your way is it. In for a hot summer, all this global warming and all lol.
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 9:08am
Yes, I can name a few crashes where the road was completely at fault. A couple of land slips come to mind straight away, but that's not the point.
People will make mistakes no matter what. We know that improving roads saves lives it's as simple as that. Same goes for safer vehicles.
Even the most professional drivers make mistakes from time to time. Especially under the conditions you describe.
There was an excellent case I bought up a few years ago regarding exactly what you were saying about sun/cloud conditions. That was the exit road from Papamoa on to SH2 which thankfully has a roundabout now.
At certain times of the year a huge volume of traffic was having to pull out on to the 100km/h highway with basically nil visibility. My accountant at the time even had a massive crash there under exactly those circumstances. When I bought it up on here I was greeted with all sorts of nonsense about pulling over for a few minutes and waiting etc. The thing is though, with 20 or more cars behind you that is just not an option, you didn't realise the danger until you were near the front of the cue and then there was no where to go.
So like the worker not being able to pull over and wait, it simply wasn't an option there either.
Another excellent example was the tanners point road turnoff on SH2. Transit NZ had the brilliant idea of putting a sign up that blocked the fiew of oncoming traffic. Residents protested Transit for weeks who refused to budget on the matter. Well, I think less than a month after installation there was a serious crash due directly to the inability to see oncoming traffic. It was tragic as it could have been completely avoided if those at transit used some common sense.
gunhand,
Oct 5, 9:19am
Another problem is, people seem to think they can enter their vehicle and go hell for leather and expect everything to be perfect all the time. Not, gee I may just come across something and have to stop or move around something at any givin time. Another thing I see a lot is, People will not give an inch even if a car is on the wrong side of the road heading toward them, instead of moving to the side to allow said moron pass they just hold their line. Bizarre. Ive seen vehicles that should be able to identify a hazard almost a KM away on a straight road and still manage to almost hit it, again, bizarre.
ema1,
Oct 5, 9:20am
Yea gun weather has been rather nice over the last fortnight very mild winter this year and a brilliant spring thus far. Bit cooler with blustery winds right now though but that's only a blip really. One things for sure we haven't had all the rain like the North Island has had nor what the East Coast of the South has had, just the odd useful shower to keep things nice and green and the dust down up here. Hows things down your way gun, hows work going my man? Ha ha I wonder if jazz is immune from making mistakes, it's like farting against thunder mate, or banging your head on a rock eh?
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 9:33am
I agree completely. Even on motorways people won't move left. I am going to partially blame this on the LTSA and Police, there just doesn't seem to be any road education around this at all (moving left).
There was an interesting article on it quite recently. Driving instructors were noticing the problem but their hands were tied. They wanted to teach safe passing practices but inevitably that meant speeding. So they were stuck.
Sadly this is another side effect of Policing to the letter of the law instead of the intention of the law and not letting common sense apply.
I have also found of recent years that pulling over to let those through when towing etc has become increasingly dangerous. Once upon a time you could count on someone to drop a gear and move past. Now, if you can get them to pass at all they edge along staring at their speedometers, meanwhile that bridge that was a kilometre ahead is now looming and your road shoulder will be non existant.
At the end of the day. I feel there is just so so much we could be doing with our existing budgets and resources to save lives on our roads. We have lost common sense completely and are Policing to put ticks in box's instead of keeping our roads as safe as practicable. The other thing that irks me too is that we focus too much on road deaths while completely ignoring other serious killers in our midst.
Like farmer suicides mentioned earlier, somewhat ironic here because a revenue raising law change has negatively impacted those. Another interesting one is preventable asthma deaths. At last count there were as many of those as there were "speed" related crashes resulting in death. Yet we care so little about those we recently stopped collecting statistics even.
It's the 80/20 rule. Put your resources in to the first 80 percent, that's where you can save the most lives. Then move on to the next cause of deaths where you can do the same.
We have at least as many resources as we need with road safety, but they are bing badly usilised.
noswalg,
Oct 5, 10:04am
Vehicle licensing is a tax, I take exception to the NZ police acting as tax collectors, it's not their mandate, they aren't out there arresting people for late GST payments!
thejazzpianoma,
Oct 5, 6:54pm
Exactly, plus if late GST payments attracted a 1000% fine people would be livid. If it affects those without the ability, time and influence to lobby nothing is done.
bumfacingdown,
Oct 5, 7:18pm
What would be the most common reason for a vehicle to not have registration?
johotech,
Oct 5, 7:27pm
I know you just asked the expert. But my opinion is the most common reason would be that people can't get a WOF.
Maybe the expert will also think we should lower WOF standards, so the people who should be on the bus can get one?
But I think they still wouldn't spend the money on making their car safer.
bumfacingdown,
Oct 5, 7:32pm
The same person who defends those who can not (don't want to) pay is forever suggesting vehicles outside others specified budgets, go figure
scuba,
Oct 5, 7:37pm
yes- funny how such a small percentage of crims manage to overload the courts. it's not that they graduate from parking tickets to meth- they just don't pay for anything - tickets / fines / rent / damages- easy when you don't give a flying f. and the courts will eventually cancel the fines because you haven't paid them.
scuba,
Oct 5, 8:04pm
The only reason for making a valid wof necessary to buy your rego is so they can increase the size of the fine and offense. .unnecessary waste of police time and resources.
The easiest way to get people to do things is to offer a carrot not a stick Surprised no one in authority has realized if you lessen the number of offenses you increase the amount of compliance.
given a choice of no wof and no rego due to not enough cash or pay for one thing most will try to at least get the rego covered to lessen the fine.especially now that the rego cost has dropped.
johotech,
Oct 5, 8:42pm
I would have to disagree. If a vehicle can't get a WOF, it shouldn't be on the road, so no need for licensing.
What we should be looking at is compulsory third party insurance included in the licensing, like many other countries do.
esky-tastic,
Oct 5, 8:55pm
Why don't you drive around looking for cars with no warrant or rego and offer to pay the car owner for those things thereby preventing the undoubtedly good upstanding citizen from killing themselves?
esky-tastic,
Oct 5, 8:57pm
Can't afford a WOF or rego? Then you can't afford the car.
esky-tastic,
Oct 5, 9:00pm
Touche'!
ema1,
Oct 5, 10:06pm
In a nutshell jazz is condoning breaking the law and siding with those that haven't/don't pay what an absolute jerk, then he has the audacity of running down our Police force, there are the few bad apples in the Police, but then you get them in any profession but jazz has the extremely bad habit of "white washing " all in sundry to suit his warped agendas. Hopeless case really and totally outnumbered here.
ema1,
Oct 5, 10:59pm
You would almost think going by jazz's anti establishment, authority, police etc rhetoric that something in his life somewhere along the line happened to make him soooo anti convention to such a weird extreme degree? The saga length rambling posts would strongly suggest that being the case. Thank god most of us are normal types, no point arguing against his nutty crap as you'll only get baffled with bullshit vitriolic replies which don't impress frankly ! He must have worn out lots of shovels/spades by now digging ever bigger holes he gets himself into ha ha .
scuba,
Oct 5, 11:08pm
great theory- but only affects honest people and makes offenders out of poor people who need their car to work. meanwhile the criminal element just carry on.
sr2,
Oct 6, 12:19am
Surely the bottom line has to be if you cant afford 3rd party you cant afford to own a car?
bwg11,
Oct 6, 12:33am
Wonder if you will feel the same when a WOF less car crosses the centre line and takes out you and your family. Hypothetically a loose front wheel bearing which would have been picked up at WOF time finally collapses, the wheel folds under the car and it veers towards you and your family.
elect70,
Oct 6, 12:34am
My point was not the fact of evading tax but police wasting time doing this when they complain they havent got $ or resources to do more constructive work like roadside truck inspections anymore , Why isnt he out on patrol catching the bad guys speeding etc . Just a lazy way to get his weekly quota of tickets . wonder how many hours they waste on these blatant revenue gathering exersizes every week , they must pull a few 000$ out of Auck car parks a week
ema1,
Oct 6, 3:14am
Now here's a worthwhile question. Who is going to police the WOF's and or registrations being current or not if the owners of said vehicles don't and frankly lots don't or even give a stuff, then there's those that have feeble excuses as reasons why they aren't current, it goes on and on? Condoning that practice whether lazy, forgotten or otherwise isn't acceptable IMO ! I suggest things would turn pretty ugly if no authority at all policed it. insurance companies would take a dim view as would lots of other entities involved in the aftermath of such a thing getting out of hand. anarchy would soon follow and frankly the scene would quickly turn into an even bigger paradise for the criminals out there ! There are far to many out there right now that will "Given an inch they will take a MILE." just relaxing things altogether would encourage the likelihood of making that becoming an even larger and out of control situation.
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