LMAO "common knowledge" aha. Sounds more like ignorance of the masses who have never owned one.
What Fiats have you owned harry?
Also, what do you drive out of curiosity?
The NZ company was my company. No I am not going to post details. However I will tell you, I never recall us having a fleet Panda off the road for even a day other than a few minutes for a scheduled service or WOF. That's pretty darn amazing especially as the fleet ones were older and bought on a very tight budget.
harry353,
Jul 10, 11:34pm
By tomorrow Fiat will be the NO 1 selling car in NZ. Most reliable. Least depreciating. Easiest to work on. Such lovely cars. Why o why are they not selling to anyone other than fleet buyers? Mystery of the year.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 10, 11:39pm
Not a mystery at all. For one the importer is beyond appalling. For two, NZ is totally warped psychologically when it comes to motorvehicles.
Decades of the used car market revolving almost completely around used Japanese imports and the tall stories told to sell them (as almost all the JDM stuff is severely lacking in features compared to European options). That's what happens. That's why you would be laughed at if you said the stuff you are saying in Europe, where the Panda is part of folklore and one of the highest volume selling vehicles of all time.
The beauty of this though is that they can be had in NZ at far far less than what they should be worth. So the smart money buys an almost new one which has done almost all of it's depreciating for the first 10 years of it's life and reap the benefits. Just as I have time and again.
Incidentally, before the usless current importer and Jap imports, Fiat's used to be very popular in NZ. We had truck loads of 124' 125's Uno's etc
harry353,
Jul 10, 11:39pm
You scoff at "common knowledge" then say it's known to the masses. LMAO.
Again you refer to your own situation. That is your truth but it isn't the truth for most people according to the facts. I'm happy that you have had a good run from them but that's not the issue. The facts speak differently eos.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 10, 11:42pm
I am not seeing any facts from you though? You are just making noise about them without putting anything up other than a consumer opinion survey from the US where they don't even sell the Panda!
The reliability index has all the facts regarding reliability. I also pointed out how you can see what the depreciation will likely be. What other facts do you actually want?
What I was referring too and how that differs to your "common knowledge" nonsense is blatantly obvious too.
harry353,
Jul 10, 11:43pm
Oh I remember the 124 the 125 and the uno. Appart from the uno they were great cars to drive but they were unreliable and back then very expensive to own and maintain. I don't know much about the Uno except a friend had one and hated it.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 10, 11:47pm
So you are basing your opinion on 50 year old cars then?
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 10, 11:48pm
What do you drive now? You never answered this.
harry353,
Jul 10, 11:50pm
Hell no. I read current data and analysis provided by many sources before making any judgement. Why do you ask? Do you agree that the 124 and 125 and Uno were bad?
harry353,
Jul 10, 11:55pm
Irrelevant. But rest assured it's not a Fiat or a Jeep or a VW group car. Nor is it a Suzuki.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 10, 11:55pm
The 124 and 125 were ground breaking and I never found them very reliable when compared to similarly sophisticated vehicles of the age. 5 Speed transmission, that sort of performanc, overhead cam, 4 wheel discs. You would have to be comparing to Jaguars, Datsun Fairlady's and the like which would put the Fiats in the more reliable of the bunch.
The Uno rusted and was a bit uncomfortable on long trips but it was a phenomenal car for it's time and the sales figures show that. Like the 124 and 125 it also brought a number of first to the industry like gutterless windows and the modern space saving upright seating position. The first proper production CVT was an UNO/Panda thing too.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 10, 11:57pm
No not irrelevant at all, I beg to differ, lets see how whatever you drive sits in the reliability index, production numbers etc compared to what you are dissing.
harry353,
Jul 11, 12:02am
I could say anything? I would just need to say Lexus or Porsche or Honda etc and then we could do battle on that but it does nothing to further the debate on the reliability or otherwise of Fiat.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 11, 12:05am
You could, but a Gentleman would tell the truth as I have. It would just be very interesting to see what you drive and how it compares statistically to the vehicle you have been criticising so much. A benchmark is always a good thing and presumably, you are happy with your current choice with regards to reliability, depreciation etc?
harry353,
Jul 11, 12:09am
OK. And I know that there are some issues with it. 2017 Honda Accord.
My only real concern is the Engine management system whereby some cylinders are deactivated. Honda says they are fixed but I will find out in due course. Bought at 30% under retail so depreciation is covered for a while.
harry353,
Jul 11, 12:12am
I reserve the right to change my car if proven to be crap.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 11, 12:12am
Good work on buying it 30% under retail. Let's see how the numbers run.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 11, 12:18am
Reliability - excellent, better than the Panda even.
Depreciation wise. not so good. Now to be fair, the Honda is much more expensive than the Panda. However, even with that in mind. Assuming average value on here for your accord vs average value for one 5 years older. It would seem you stand to lose about $20'000 over the next 5 years.
A Panda as recommended here would stand to lose about $3500 over the same period.
So your depreciation statement has been well and truly busted. Likewise with the reliability index, so has the reliability one.
harry353,
Jul 11, 12:19am
Nobody wants sedans anymore so they are having trouble selling them. Whilst I do like the SUV with a full chassis for towing etc I much prefer to drive a sedan.
harry353,
Jul 11, 12:23am
Tax. Depreciation can be written off. But in any event I guess the pleasure in driving a nice car does cost in the end. I used to own a 1968 Pontiac and it appreciated in value every year I owned it but it was not as comfortable to drive.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 11, 12:25am
Just thinking about your Honda Harry, are you regularly giving it a good boot full on the motorway etc?
I am assuming you had the typical plugs fouling issue with the Accord?
Also, how is the oil consumption?
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 11, 12:33am
I am off to bed, been fun debating with you and I appreciate your being a gentleman, such a nice change from the severe mud slinging that goes on here at times. If you want to discuss the deactivation issue sometime I would be interested. I don't follow very new Honda's much but I have a pretty good understanding of how their deactivation system works and the plug fouling issue it can cause. I would be very interested to know what exactly the dealer did. Whether they just replaced the rear bank plugs or did the software update as well (although perhaps yours already has the altered software being so new?). If you are giving it plenty of regular spirited driving and it does it again I would complain, but if it's just been stuck in traffic a lot then that's really just a downfall of the design, unfortunately. Oil consumption can be an issue with those and it can manifest initially by making the rear plugs foul more easily. Best of luck with it. Some Honda guys on here may know more if you are curious too.
harry353,
Jul 11, 12:37am
thejazzpianoma Good chatting with you. Sleep well.
tga73,
Jul 14, 2:30pm
Subaru outback or legacy 2.5 or 3.6R
sw20,
Nov 25, 5:00pm
Need a class 2 with that combo.
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