Toyota Echo vs Fiat Punto - Help decide!

Looking for a cheap to run, reliable hatchback.
Budget 4k max.
Echo is 1000cc , chain drive, toyota, heaps of them around, might be lucky to find one under 4k.
Fiat is 1200cc, not a lot of them around but heard they are reliable and cheap to run. but it is a fiat/european.

Do you realise the can of worms you are about to open lol.I'll kick off by saying If going for an Echo you need to be getting the 1300, not the 1000, they're fine in downtown Tokyo but useless on NZ open roads, especially with a full load on board.

Ah okay. I'm in Chch atm and might be moving to auckland or up north sometime after december. 1000cc might be okay for flat roads in chch but might not be so in welly and motorways!

And I'm guessing echo 1300cc vs punto 1200cc economy should be similar.

Why can or worms! Heard they are both good cars but lots of options for echo to choose from whereas only a few of puntos in nz.

Got a 00' Punto in the workshop at the mo 95000kms on the clock rust all round the front screen and blowen head gasket, cooling system in good shape and a good service history. also got a 01' 1000cc echo coming in as a trade in rough service history 300000kms on the clock servicing sometimes stretched to 50000kms apart very gutless because the vvti pulley and oil solenoid is clocked with bad oil but still a runner and the owner has been using it like this for the last 3 years lol.
Theres some food for thought for ya.

Easy answer is call 5 mechanics and ask what they would prefer.
It is likely to be unanimous.
The Punto guy will surface soon.I'm sure of it.

Want something incredibly reliable but utterly boring, bland to drive and over-priced for the (lack of) features you get! Go for the Vitz/Echo/Yaris/Platz/Whatever-
thef*cktheycallit.

Want something which can be just as economical, fun to drive and relatively stylish to look at and be in, packed full of more features for your money but perhaps at the expense of reliability (even though it may prove to be reliable enough and cheap enough to maintain)! Go for the Punto.

Surely there's more to car ownership than taking a car to a mechanic. I would have thought driver enjoyment, fuel economy, value for money, advanced safety features, style & design would have rated quite highly. It does for me anyhow. I don't really care what a mechanic thinks about my car, they never see it anyway!

It's all been said already.

Messageboard = Motoring
Keyword = Fiat Punto
Date Posted = Last year

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Criteria "cheap to run, reliable hatchback"
Which of the two is options is the best bet. Isay the echo.
How much of a drivers car it may or not be wasnt asked.

Jaz must still be typing??

Driver enjoyment, style & design are the only two of those that concerns me when I buy a car. That said, I wouldn't have a Toyota on my arse for a wart.

LOL,
If ever there was a thread.
Anyhow, poster 1. In my mind it is absolutely no contest, the Echo is a big compromise right across the board on safety, drivability, power etc

The Punto on the other hand gives you the best of both worlds. Not only is it more plesant around the City than the Echo with clever features like dual mode power steering and its lovely CVT that does not rev and roar its way through the gears. Its also a very capable open road car that you can do proper long distance in with power to pass, comfort and plenty of safety.

Trying to gauge anything at all from one Punto in one garage is simply lunacy and means nothing at all.

Having actually owned and run these cars for home and work use, having paid somenone else to service the work ones and having also worked on them myself I can tell you they are a terrific car and leaps and bounds ahead of the Toyota in nearly every way.

There are some points to address from above though which may help.

1. Rust.
These are actually renowned for NOT rusting as they are fully galvanized. However there are one or two cases of the very first year of production (2000) of that model where a bracket under the windscreen channel which is not galvanised caused some rust issues. It affects only a few cars and its easy to spot if its going to be a problem.

2. Overheating problems.
Again very very rare, I don't know what they have done to achieve that, people manage to do some really stupid things to cars so its one to discount and not worry about.

3. European,
Thats just silly buying into the car dealer driven wives tales about European cars being this or that. Its a load of generalized nonsense that you don't hear in countries with normal secondhand car trade. NZ has just got really messed up attitude wise because people tend to believe what car dealers say and car dealers basically only sell used Japanese imports. When the imported cars are over priced and way under featured with less safety equipment they have to say something to sell them and playing on some fear of the unknown is what they do. In 99% of cases those making the big noise about European cars being this or that have never owned the car in question. If they had they would realize that Punto parts are readily available and often cheaper than Toyota parts.

You do need to be aware that one or two places try and sell European parts for silly money but these are easily avoided. Unfortunately you do get some knuckle draggers that make a big song and dance about people who have been stupid enough to pay those prices. The thing is, if you are silly enough you can get ripped off over anything.

4. Oddball!
Not in the least, we have enough over here for plenty of parts to be kept inNZ and parts are cheap because that model Punto was HUGELY successful on a worldwide scale. It was the biggest selling car of its size in many countries for years. Its another silly skewed thing, its not applicable here but so many people avoid cars like the Punto because they are supposedly oddball only to buy something that actually was made in relatively limited numbers for Japans domestic market but popular here. those are the ones if anyone who are likely to have parts availability problems.

5. The key thing with the Punto is simply to check it out properly. A good example is very likely to stay reliable so long as you service it on time and don't abuse it. If you want a list of what to check I am happy to provide one.

I'm just going to be a d*** and say Corolla after that long speel, lol

One more thing, avoid the old "ring around some mechanics line" its a classic used by car dealer types. The thing is mechanics like whatever they know inside out and back to front because they can turn over jobs quick and move on to the next chargable job. Likewise they prefer to only deal with a couple of parts suppliers who generally prefer to supply just mainstream stuff, call it being busy or just lazy and incompetent, sometimes its a bit of both. So obviously for these reasons many will try and dissuade you from anything but the most mainstream in NZ vehicle, even if they have never worked on a Punto in their life.

The silly thing is the Punto is excellent to work on and there is nothing at all unusual about working on one. Any competent and sensible general mechanic can work on one easily. hang any half handy owner can do most servicing themselves too.

Anyhow, finding a good competant garage to work on one is actually pretty easy, if need be you can always ring your local Fiat club and ask who is the best in your town. But really any good mechanic will do and if they make silly comments about a Punto you generally wouldn't want them working on your Toyota anyway.

The very best thing you can do is take the Echo for a good drive both open road, hills and in town and then do the same in the Punto, the decision should be really easy after that. It will be even easier again if you take some time to compare the spec's performance/economy, crash rating, airbags, pretensioners, abs etc etc.

Just be aware that the Japanese use a different means of testing their fuel economy that is setup to make even the worst vehicles look as good as possible. They don't even get near the open road speed limit on their testing and accelerate so gently they would get tooted at and run over in the real world. So with that in mind even though the fuel economy figures look good for both cars they Fiat is actually lots better economy wise than comparing the figures would suggest, even thogh it has bucket loads more power. There are solid reasons for that too. which I can go into if you like to read a lot!

You were right! He must almost be able to cut and paste his replies by now! :)

Thats it from me for the moment. Just be aware that because I recommend Puntos a lot and there are plenty of car dealer types who frequent these boards its become sport around here to say anything at all to try and put the Punto into disrepute. Just bear that in mind.

Stamina has always been my strong point.

I'd be asking why you're sticking only to the Echo and Punto. I'd be considering Suzuki Ignis, Honda Logo or even a Toyota Starlet or a Daihatsu Sirion/Charade. Or a VW Polo.

Darn it. one more important thing.
The Punto's I am referring too in the mega speel above are the MK2 which starts in 2000. Thats the one to get its leaps and bounds ahead of the MK1 Puntos, bit hard to find for 4K but you can get them and worth the wait.

EchoEchoEcho

Speaking of other possible contenders. I have not had the pleasure of owning one of these myself. but if it were me I would seriously be checking this out. Its likely to go well within budget so you will likely be able to get its timing belt service etc all up to date and still be under if it needs it.

http://www.turners.co.nz/Vehicles/Pages/Car.aspx!RefId=931466

Just do a little research on who has parts etc. Plenty of cheap parts online but not being a Renault person I can't direct you to who has them cheap in NZ like I can with Fiat.

Huge amount of car for the money.

Honda Civic hatchback with a B18C VTEC engine.

:D

Hey, come on now, they're cheap, cheap to run, AND reliable.

I had a y2000 1.3 echo and it was a souless heap of shit with 0 options, not even electric windows.

But it never broke down and did trips from Wellington to Auckland easy.

Both those cars suck. You might as well get the one that costs the least to own and operate.

Thanks for the definition.

Scratch the Polo (1994-2002ish models) off the list - it's a terrible car. I would rather drive an Echo and that's saying something.