Other than the issues with the VW one key thing with the others is safety, the MK2 Punto's in NZ (Jap import and Kiwi) are generally 4 1/2 Star NCAP cars. In that price range and age some cars are atrocious in even a low speed crash and others like the Punto are really good, even acceptable by new car standards today which is saying something given its over 10 years later.
fiatracer,
Sep 12, 4:51am
hmmm. We have a '99 Polo 1600 auto - I actually quite like it - feisty little thing that it is. Not as nice was my dad's Seat ibiza - but that went bloody well too.
Not a fan of Puntos. but jazz is 100% right in everything he's said in this thread - regarding the old wives tales, biases, etc. Like phil.weston says too - drive them back to back - rarely does a small Japanese hatch give any reason to smile. The old charade GTti and the recent Suzuki Sprints excepted :-)
barrie2,
Sep 12, 5:50am
Mate in UK had a Punto. Let him down a lot so before he scrapped it he removed the 'P' and the 'o' from tailgate badge. He cut the 'o' in half and stuck front half before the remaining letters of unt. Used it for a while until scrap yard.
franc123,
Sep 12, 5:57am
Yes correct.After reading the above can you see now what I meant re the can of worms!I suppose at least it and the opinions about it are galvanised :)
73040,
Sep 12, 7:12am
Thanks for the responses. So echo is not so recommended.
it must be automatic so that Renault won't do. I have exactly 2 months to buy a car, need to have one by 10th November because that's when our current lease run out so no point in having one earlier.
I asked relatively early so we could start looking from now and buy.one which is not a rip off.
ringo2,
Sep 12, 7:28am
Get the Toyota.don't bother listening to the Euro fans that always qualify their recommendations by saying that you have to do all your own maintainence etc as the garages charge an arm and a leg.
don_logan,
Sep 12, 7:38am
Google "car survey" and then search the toyota echo, then search the fiat punto. Its intersesting to read what actual owners consider the strengths and weaknesses of each. Never pays to listen to one owner of anything if your looking for an unbiased opinion.
foxdonut,
Sep 12, 7:43am
It is over the Italian, but you'll pay a shit load more than you should have to for a souless white box with no power, no options (probably not even a CD player) and only average efficiency.
Four grand would be better spent on a Honda Accord, which will at least give you more space and probably a tow bar.
73040,
Sep 12, 7:49am
Thanks don. Very interesting. 20reviews for echo and 1 bad one. Whereas 40 for punto and 2 bad ones. Looking at that site punto seems to be bigger seller than echo but in nz it's totally different story.
73040,
Sep 12, 7:54am
Hey fox we have other cars for towing and space. What I need is economy , reliability, safety, style, enough power to go roadtripping with 3 or4 in the car and able to pass trucks and go up mountain(not very often).
So i'm guessing that rules out 1000cc. But then again if it is a big tradeoff between economy and power I'll choose economy over power as long as it has enough power to pass trucks.
options are not limited to these two cars but rest of Japanese look too boring and nana looks. Hate the look if colt, jazz, march, sirion etc. main drivers are going to be me and my brother equally so he can't have anything pink or too girly or nana. :p
So keep those suggestions coming.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 12, 8:01am
The thing is you can have absolutely everything you want with the Punto. You will always find heaps of whingers online regarding anything Fiat because the Fiat dealerships in the U.K are absolutely atrocious with service.
Its the same thing every time on here, so many people with a loud negative opinion who have never owned a Punto, simply giving it a hard time because its not Japanese.
Sorry if I sound blunt but it is very frustrating.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 12, 8:06am
Have a look at this, its a reliability survey which leaves all the silly human element out of it and just reports the statistics. Basically any car that scores under 100 is pretty good. You will find the Echo scores a bit better but so it should because it has significantly less equipment. The more equipment the higher the score in general regardless of manufacturer its just common sense. If you compare it to say the Toyota Avensis which has a level of equipment more similar to the Punto you will see the Punto is actually beating the Toyota. There is nothing wrongwhat so ever with the Punto regarding reliability, its just that its the only grey area thats hard to prove so the idiot knuckle draggers jump all over it even though they have no suitable experience with the vehicle to draw any conclusion what so ever.
It would be a crying shame to see yet another person give up the ideal vehicle in favour of something less suitable all because of the ignorant comments of some idiots.
Bottom line, to get a sensible level of safety, performance and economy you need a certain level of equipment. You are not going to find anything in the price range (or likely many options at twice the price) that will offer reliability as good as the Punto with a similar level of equipment.
If you want a list of what can be a problem with a Punto I am happy to provide one (and advise we go over that before you buy one) but its all either minor easy fix stuff no worse than any other car or things you can generally check and avoid before purchasing.
Any car with any badge can break. The Punto is not one of those cars that is particularly likely to give you problems.
Plus it wouldn't have been the most popular car in its class for years for no reason.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 12, 8:22am
BTW, if you wind up living in Auckland Itailan Auto Centre stock genuine new and used parts for an excellent price and can do any servicing or repairs at a competitive rate as well. Plenty of other places in any town can do the work too but Italians are great in that they work on these all day every day and have every conceivable part on the shelf.
craigsmith,
Sep 12, 8:26am
Check the electrical power steering very carefully. If the current owner has it in "city" mode you might have trouble.
We bought a Punto a few weeks ago. 2001 with 95k on its clock. Went to collect it and took it for one last test drive. F*ing power steering died on us about 500 m before we were back and about to hand over the cash. Oops.
I damn near drove off the road. Keep both hands on the wheel at all times Mr Smith.
So the owner fixed that (recond unit) and now we have a 3 month warranty on it. But its a major common fault that seems to be exacerbated by idiots leaving the "city" mode on.
The other common issue that's probably worsened by NZ sunlight, if the car has been left outside and neglected (and what $4-5k 2nd hand car hasn't), are the light enclosures. The plastic seems to be rubbish - the headlights are subject to crazing and misting, and the tail lights are subject to the red filter being damaged. Our new Punto's tail and brake lights are quite pink, they might not pass a WOF one day.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 12, 8:26am
Got it in one! The Punto is super popular overseas and thats what matters because that determines what parts cost and availability. In fairness the Echo is still pretty popular overseas though too.
thejazzpianoma,
Sep 12, 8:31am
Its all on my list of pre-checks, you are spot on in that you do need to check things first like any car, that said the main things to look for are quick and easy to check.
Sounds like you might have a Japanese import one. The Japanese ones have different rear lights and are usually the ones that have the fading issues.
Good news though, the front lights if not absolutely stuffed come up like new with a buff wheel on a drill and some brasso or similar.
With the rear tail lights, if they fail a WOF just shoot into a model shop and grab some Tamiya red translucent epoxy paint (I can look up the number if you need.)
The Tamiya paint is self leveling and it won't look painted at all. quite the opposite it will look like new. It does take a few minutes and you do need to do a little bit of masking (I am fussy and pull the lights out and do them flat) but its not a hard job and the results are great.
don_logan,
Sep 12, 8:40am
I always find it disturbing when someone chooses to dismiss or ignore direct owner feedback on a product. Sure if ALL reports were suggesting a problem with service or back up in the UK . or even if ALL reports were UK based, then your argument could have some basis.As neither is the case, I find it far from productive to group who ever may disagree with your view point into knuckle dragging idiots. Example first review I opened for a punto "Electric Power Steering had gone very lumpy several times. Motor got replaced under warranty. And again! Still lumpy so Fiat looked at it again an they said water/condensation must have got into the motor somehow. they removed the dash board and found a leak" cant see much lack of after sales service here! . also to suggest that that an echo is more reliable because it is more basic! again read the reviews, read what goes wrong, if it was page after page of people saying the extra subwoofer is broken, the fair call. but is this the case!
foxdonut,
Sep 12, 8:45am
You won't get any of those in a 1000cc Japanese or Italian shopping trolley, let alone for a maximum of 4 grand.
If you want an Arbarth Fiat Esse Esse or a Honda FN2 Type R GT then they're 40 grand.
Do you *absolutely* *need* this car *now* or can you afford to save a while and buy something that isn't just overpriced and underspecc'd whiteware; or a rustbucket falling to bits hand me down Italian heap.
countrypete,
Sep 12, 8:51am
Unfortunately the "long winded" poster seems to believe that anyone who does not hold the exact views that he/ she does is a knuckle-dragging idiot / incompetent / lunatic / stupid / silly / messed up / lazy / loud / negative blah blah.Nothing personal though, mind you.
foxdonut,
Sep 12, 9:02am
Honestly never better.
Just 2c - sometimes a thread just needs someone to come along and tell it how it is.
foxdonut,
Sep 12, 9:14am
On the subject of Italian cars.
Holy crap look what I just found for sale in Sydney.
Nope not right now, can wait till November first week, but budget 4k is about right. You will be surprised by the power of cash when in the market to buy cars :P
peekaboo4u2,
Sep 12, 9:42am
my wifes got a 1000cc vitz it runs like crap expecially when cold dont get one not good on gas in auckland for what it is really go for ATLEAST 1300 up. gadgit3 is there a way you can tell the vvti oil solanoid is cloged up! dont think the previous owner serviced it that well. cheers
73040,
Sep 12, 10:03am
My friend drives a 1000cc pink one, it has suspension problems ( don't ask me what exactly because thats all I know, it makes noises when you drive), she said it has just enough power. But I've always liked toyotas and vitz/yaris/echo looks kindof modern.
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