I'm after a small car for use pottering around town. It will rarely go further as we have the big car for that. I want auto.
The Punto is very well priced and is available 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 interest free. I've discounted the budget model, the middle model (easy) being the best pick at $20k.
Otherwise I'm considering a small used import (civic) for around $9k. That a lot of money for a decade old car and comes with the maintenance risk. No modern options (bluetooth, ipod etc) of course.
All of the opposition models (Focus, VW, Honda, Toyota etc) will cost around $25k for a similarly equipped car. No interest free either.
The Fiat is priced cheaper in NZ than in the UK (relatively).
I see this as a means to get into a new car for less up front cash than a used import. It will have three years warranty and need no initial servicing.
That said, it is a Fiat. I recognize it won't quite be as good as a focus or Jazz. I'd plan to keep around 5 years and sell with less than 50000kms after that time. Comments?
jmma,
Feb 9, 2:00am
In 5 years you would loss at least 1/2 the 20k so spend the 9k and after 5 years you may even get some of that back. Long winded message to follow (o:
robotnik,
Feb 9, 2:00am
How about a Mitsubishi Mirage? They seem to have good deals on them at the moment and it is hard to go past the 5 year Mitsubishi warranty.
A Fiat might be OK in the UK, but here there aren't many mechanics familiar with them and parts are sure to be more expensive.
Focus is a size up from the Punto, the equivalent would be the Fiesta. There are lots of three year old ex lease cars like Focus and Corolla always coming on the market from Esanda and Turners which might be more appealing than a 9 year Civic, priced around $10k to $14k depending on km's travelled.
grangies,
Feb 9, 2:12am
LOL. If anyone with a automotive trade cert in mechanical repairs can't fix a Fiat Punto, then they are USELESS.
msigg,
Feb 9, 2:40am
Well if you are doing the math then the civic would win twice over, the punto will depreciate something bad, in 5 years will be worth probably 7-8 k where the civic will be about 2-3k and the maintenance will be the same as you are only doing 50k. So do you want to throw away 12-13k or 7 - 8, ( less if invested). That,s the question.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 2:42am
The Fiat is a great car and a super bargain at the moment. What I would suggest though, is you take a look on here as there have been a number given away as prizes etc that have then been advertised on here with pretty much zero km's and already registered for just 14-15K.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask as I have had a number of late model Fiats including the Grande Punto/Punto Evo.
Be aware that the auto is a bit different to a regular auto. It is a 5 speed (some little car auto's are only 4 speed) and it's much more efficient and weighs less due to it's design. The shift gate will take a week or so to get used to but is a better system once you are used to it as you don't have to look down to check what position you have put it in. It will also "feel" a bit different as it's actually the same transmission as the manual car but with a computer and actuators that operate the clutch and gear shifts.
The result is more economy, more power and more reliability. It just can take a little getting used to.
twink19,
Feb 9, 2:45am
had a brand new 2005 Punto, great car, kept it 4 years did 70k lost no more than any other new car. lost 8k in the 4 years, and trouble free motoring, the more you pay the more you loose
kazbanz,
Feb 9, 2:46am
imdzn as a direct comparison--"a dealer somewhere" sold a 2014 swift with 40km on the clock all up for 15k so basicly new car that won't plummet in value for 5 k less than the fiat. realistically currently 05 swifts are still getting 9k -what are 05 punto's fetching?
franc123,
Feb 9, 2:48am
Getting the best deal you can on the Civic, binning the stereo and upgrading it to one that has the features you want is going to be the cheapest option by far over five years. The big difference is when you go to sell the Civic someone will actually want it.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 2:49am
BTW. I wouldn't necessarily be in a big rush to sell it at that age/km for fear of reliability etc. They have quite sharp initial depreciation (but not terrible) and those that buy around the 5 year mark often get a few years with pretty much no depreciation.
Fundamentally the 1.4 Petrol is a very reliable unit, it's simpler and better proven than pretty much all it's competitors. If it's serviced correctly and treated well I wouldn't be expecting any unexpected repairs until at least 150K.
If you do have a problem, it's usually cheap and easy to fix on these and not usually something that will leave you stranded.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 2:53am
The Swift has no where near as much boot space, and if it's a kiwi new one it's no where near as nice a car. They have a stupid 4 speed antiquated auto that sucks the gas and makes heavy work of progress. Go and drive both the NZ new Suzuki Swift and the Punto and see for yourself.
I also wouldn't be expecting the Swift to be worth noticably more than the Punto in 5 years.
If you must have a Swift get the 1.2 Import as at least then you have a decent transmission. But then you have a used import with less if any warranty and the other disadvantages that go with it.
Be aware that this is very much an "Asian vehicle or nothing" board to the point of posters making nasty personal attacks on those who don't "tow the line" and say positive things about other options.
I would also suggest you have a look on here at prices of circa 2010 Grande Punto's and Swifts. That would be the 5 years you are looking at keeping the vehicle, see the price's for yourself.
msigg,
Feb 9, 2:55am
kazbanz and franc123 are on the money. If you have money to burn then go with it, nothing wrong with that. If you want Money in pocket then the civic. Math or new car.
poppy62,
Feb 9, 3:01am
From around $7.5K and up so not far away. Actually (just compared) about the same. 05-10 Swifts nearly 1100 for sale, Fiat Punto range 32.
kimbo88,
Feb 9, 3:23am
I've always thought it a bit unfortunate that the manual is only available on the base model. It would have been great to have it as an option on the Easy and the Lounge as well I think.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 3:34am
You could probably special order one as I am pretty sure they are available in the UK etc. That said, even though I am a big fan of manual transmissions, having had a couple of dualogic's now that is definitely my preference.
There is just no downside, you can have as much or as little control over it as you want. Fuel economy is better not worse with the dualogic and it works very well. Even does a nice job of down shifting for engine braking on hills. Reliability is fantastic and one of ours has done over 850'000 gear changes and it's still on it's first clutch.
If there is a downside it's only that it seems a little disconcerting when you first try it. I could see a lot of people being put off, when it's a shame as after they had one for a week or so I am sure they would much prefer it to a regular auto as I do, certainly for a small car like this. Only the DSG in the Polo is better in my opinion, although some CVT's are pretty good in this segment too.
kimbo88,
Feb 9, 3:44am
Interesting Jazz, I must take one for a drive and see what they're like - I've never used one at all to date. As you say though, it would probably take at least a few days to get used to the difference perhaps.
lmdnz,
Feb 9, 4:19am
When I was last in the UK they were everywhere. They look pretty simple under the hood. Surely parts are just a mouse click away?
lmdnz,
Feb 9, 4:39am
Yes sorry I meant Fiesta not Focus.
A similarly specced swift is $24k. A bit over budget. Also far too common.
To be honest I'd rather not spend $10-$14 on used at this time, especially given the additional risk costs of used cars. Even additional likely costs (and more to the point hassle) such as tyres, cambelt and annual warrants (vs three year warrant on new are to be considered). I've looked at a few used cars and have been disappointed with the quality on offer for what I'd expect to spend for a decade old car.
The "new" car advantages are attractive at this stage, such as knowing everything is as good as it can be and any surprises the dealer will sort under warranty (no question).
The 0% interest is nice but the smaller annual lump sum payment is what is really attractive for the purse.
And for those that are stating the older car is cheaper consider this VERY rough 5 year analysis. Assuming 50000kms and I've added option coststo bring car up to similar spec:
$20000 new car + $1000 incidental maintenance. = $21000 sell for $10000 = $11000 cost.
Not that different for a 10 year newer car is it?
mugenb20b,
Feb 9, 12:24pm
And yet, I've never seen a Punto with high mileage.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 12:41pm
Fiat parts are very easy to get in this country. Aside from the dealer (who obviously stocks a range) there are the likes of the Italian Auto Centre, Dino Enterprises and a couple of others that stock both New and Used parts. Then there are the likes of Speed who stock new parts. Regular service parts like filters, brake pads etc are available through the usual channels like BNT, Repco etc too. Parts are very well priced here too.
And as you say, if all else fails, it's only 5 working days to get something from the UK.
If a mechanic can't work on a PUnto they shouldn't even be touching your lawnmower. There is no "alien technology" under the bonnet, in fact the engine is as simple as they come in a modern car. The only slightly different thing is the transmission which really is not that difficult to understand, given it's really simpler in design than a regular auto. But hey, if you have a transmission problem, take it to a specialist, which would be a good idea with any automatic transmission anyway. You are spoilt for choice for those where you live. Again, aside from a number of dealers you are near the Italian Auto centre and several other third party Fiat specialists.
What you are seeing in this thread is typical. It's not about you or the car at all. It's about people who have not had one, and probably never even sat in or driven one trying to find any excuse to rubbish it because it's not Japanese or Korean. They have only just started too, those who follow me from thread to thread making nasty comments haven't even turned up yet. They do that because I regularly recommend these Punto's and some other non Japanese/Korean vehicles for the good value and very good vehicles that they are.
I'm sorry but if it was sensible impartial advice you were wanting regarding your purchase you have come to the wrong place.
BTW. Juicy car rental's just bought a huge number of them, 160? I think. You can look it up on line if you are curious.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 12:54pm
That's a typical reaction to someone who has just tried one for a short period of time as I described above. The changes only "feel" slow because people are used to the instant changes of a regular auto. That's the trade off, in a little car if you go for a regular auto your power/economy goes out the window because of the torque converter sapping 30% of your power/economy while unlocked (most of the time around town) and the extra weight and often one less gear.
The thing is, the changes are no slower than a manual transmission, it's just a sensation. After a week or so you get used to it and don't even notice the changes.
If you read that article carefully it sounds like that tester wants to use loads of revs. The 1.4 8v in the Fiat is not like some of the Fiat twin cams that is designed to stay "on song" at higher revs. It achieves it's best economy and progress at quite low revs. The transmission is designed to take advantage of that. The transmission will also adjust itself to the drivers style after a few hours, something which I don't think will have happened yet in that case.
Even that engines little brother the 1.2 8V is best at lower revs. I just came back from Gisborne fully loaded in the Panda with this engine on Sunday. On the big hills in the Gorge and the likes of the Ohope hill, I tend to only hold it around 2800 - 3600 rpm. It operates quite happily in that range. If I was driving the 16v version of the same engine I usually do that sort of hard work around 4500rpm. In fact the CVT in the older Mk2 16v Punto is designed to do exactly that, with full throttle in eco mode holding peak torque at 4500rpm. You can get a little more out of it by deselecting eco mode which will give you full power at full throttle of about 6000rpm.
thejazzpianoma,
Feb 9, 1:00pm
BTW, I have made that same Gisborne drive in a 4 Speed auto Corolla a number of times. Even though the Corolla 1.6 had considerably more power on paper. The 4 speed transmission ruined it in that sort of use. Hills were noisy and hard work. Both Mrs Jazz and I would take even the little 1.2 Punto or Panda over the Corolla any day for that run and you get the considerably better economy as a bonus. The 1.4 Punto is even better for that sort of running.
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