Also hombregordo, my apologies for assuming you were not very car savie, we just get so many on here who have been sold a line by some knuckle dragger in the auto industry and are all ready to part with a fortune for something wearing a Toyota badge. I read too much into your original post and though this may have been one of those occasions.
Just to add a little more to the above post, I think in short its time you test drove some of your options. It should make choosing a lot easier. With regard to an extra few km's on the clock or a year or two's difference its not likely to really be an issue. Just buy a well looked after example of whatever you choose and do your research on the particular model well.
NZ new can be an advantage in that you may have some more service history. The Japanese like people in general tend to be a mixed bag with some looking after their cars and some not.
A good tip for picking up a kiwi new Punto is that pretty much all manual ones are Kiwi new. Also, look at the pictures of the dash, the Kiwi new ones have a different stereo thats easy to spot as its matches into the rest of the dash properly. Just be aware there are a few single cam NZ new ones which don't have enough stoke and don't offer any real economy advantage. Those ones are mostly 3 door standard models, not "sporting" ones.
Anyhow, sounds like you are keeping an open mind and doing your research which is great to see. Best of luck with whatever you choose and hay if the best deal is a Japanese car then thats all good too the main thing is that you keep an open mind as you are. Thats the best way to get a good deal.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 1, 12:53am
Just to give you a bit more background on the VW's to help you with your decision. The Polo's in your price range feel really solid for a little car but they are no better than the Fiat with regard to safety. The Polo's of that age group are not that great in general, while they are well made they still seem to have some niggly issues crop up now and then. They do ride nicely and the single cam engines are very simple but they just don't perform as well as the Fiat and lack some of its refinements. The MK4 Golf is a really nicely laid out car, its well ahead of the Polo of the time and it drives and handles very nicely, but its let down by the standard engines which are not very efficient.For example a 1200cc twin cam Punto is quicker in most situations than even the 2.0 single cam Golfand its much better on gas.
The GTI is a great car though, with the 1.8T engine it completes the picture offering performance in keeping with the rest of the car. It also does so with negligible affect on fuel economy compared to the much slower 2.0 standard Golf.
The catch with the GTI though is you won't be getting a really top example for your budget.
The MK4 also is known for a few electrical gremlins which while they are not end of the world are another reason I prefer the Fiat in that price range.
So in short, by all means take a Golf for a test drive, they are not a terrible choice and it will give you an idea of just how nice and refined a car can be for $6000. However given that with a bit of patience you could get a stunning low km Punto for your budget I think the Punto is the better car overall considering what you are looking for and your price range. The only real sacrifice with the Punto by comparison is it is not quite as luxurious on the open road, the Golf wipes the floor with pretty much everyone in that department.
Anyhow, enough ranting from me. Best of luck with it all.
wrong2,
Jun 1, 12:59am
a 2001 with only 10K on the speedo = a car that has sat around coroding most of its life
a 2006 with 150K added by a sales rep = a car thats had regular running & proper services
^ those are generalities , for any used car , get a mechanic to check it over
wrong2,
Jun 1, 1:19am
the Mk2 Punto has been out & about for a decade now
if it was so golden& awe inspiring as jazzman claims, the web , dealers & mechanics around the world would all be oozing punto praise
none are. their only strong point is that in NZ they are cheapo buys - says it all really
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 1, 1:26am
Actually, it was a massive success in other countries and one many many accolades. Its also really only one model off the pace still.
It is extra good value in NZ though which is what makes it so good here. Prices have firmed up though and it isn't quite as good a bargain as it was 12 months ago but its still pretty hard to beat.
fordkiwi27,
Jun 1, 1:28am
have had a lot of people get cars from millar cars! in auckland from here. real good cars and EXCEPTIONAL after sales service,from a good bloke.
craig04,
Jun 1, 3:07am
Surely if they are so great, you would only ever need to own 1.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 1, 3:27am
Good question! Well, the thing is I had to provide vehicles for my staff, now I was hardly going to go and buy them nasty over priced and expensive to run Corolla's now was I! Plus my needs change over time, that means sometimes (like now) I am better with a Multipla.
tgray,
Jun 1, 5:17am
You recommend he talk to the people who service Fiats and not people who service Japanese cars. That just like me saying buy a toyota but only ring the toyota dealer. Lets face facts: the Fiat Punto has an appauling build quality and despite what you say, has a terrible transmission reputation. Parts would be harder to find and expensive in NZ and resale value non existent. Why would this poster bother when he is looking for reliability! You no doubt love these cars, but he is not an enthusiast and just wants something from A to B. You obviously have it in for Jappas and that's something you will have to live with. I have bought over 900 cars in the last 5 years (100% japanese) and have had problems with about 10 of them. I wouldn't want a Fiat if you gave it to me. Again, CALL SOME MECHANICS who don't sell/service Fiats or corollas and ask what they recommend. ps/ golfs and polos are a complete disaster! ASK MECHANICS! Your defensive and details responses would like me to believe this is all a wind up, but unfortunately I can see you are actually serious. I find that sad.really.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 1, 3:50pm
Thanks for demonstrating that people like you really do exist in the motor trade and adding weight to my argument. I couldn't buy a better example, touting silly wives tales, angrily sounding off at anything that is not Japanese even though they have clearly never owned one, and pushing people hand over fist into over priced Toyota's for fear of the sky falling.
You have made my day!
I had to wipe a tear of joy from my eye when I took a look at your profile, to find that you even look exactly like the stereotype. Bravo!
I will be book marking this thread for future reference, its brilliant to have such a shining example to refer to, thanks again.
wrong2,
Jun 1, 4:15pm
& yet most mechanics will disagree with you, & agree with tgray
& probablly most italians
phillip.weston,
Jun 1, 5:26pm
Why is every one so fixated with having to have a 'reliable' car, which can turn out to be 'unreliable' anyway! Even to the point that they pay more for something that resembles a dishwasher.
I think Jazz is perhaps going over-board by claiming that the Punto is more reliable than a mundane every day Corolla/Pulsar/Familia/Civic etc, but I think the Punto is definitely worth looking into. It represents great value for money and it generally is better spec'd than the equivalent Japanese car (more in terms of safety equipment than anything else). The one thing I don't like about the Punto is the ghastly interior colour scheme, and that the grey plastic looks incredibly cheap, like something you would find in a 90's Hyundai.
For me, I would say look outside the square, there's literally hundreds of cars out there just as good as each other, I wouldn't be so quick to buy a car which has hardly any redeeming features, simply because it's seen to be 'reliable'.
johnf_456,
Jun 1, 5:30pm
Well said phillip, the weak plastic and crappy interior is what put me off fiats, some just some very flimsy. But really any car can break and cars are so much of a muchness these days.
tgray,
Jun 1, 10:52pm
Thanks for the compliment. My feedback really speaks for itself don't you think!
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 12:22am
Thanks Philip, you have it in a nutshell. Incidentally I never claimed that a Punto would be more reliable than something Japanese. Simply that its very reliable and I infered that reliability would likely be much of a muchness with anything Japanese of similar sophistication. the last three words being the most important part.
I even actually spelled out quite plainly that a cut down shopping cart with no features would always have a slight reliability advantage over something more sophisticated regardless of make.
Not having a go at you at all Philip, I really appreciate your middle stance and voice of reason. I just wanted to point out what I did actually say before things get further carried away.
What you said was spot on, getting the best value out of a car is a balancing act. No point in throwing the baby out with the bathwater to get the last 2% of economy, reliability or whatever at expense of everything else.
Incidentally, have you seen a MK2 Punto with the dark blue seats! I can't stand the garish crimson option but I quite like the dark blue.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 12:30am
You are quite right, this is the weak point. But no car is perfect and as far as weak points go, if a bit of trim breaks or scratches it wont leave you stranded. Its also a lot nicer looking than the similarly priced "Beige fantastics" with their 6ft high automatic selectors etc and no proper centre console.
Anyhow, my trick with MK2 Punto's is to buy are really mint example, you pay very little extra for a good one. Then so long as you look after it with a bit of care they hold up fine.
The good thing with the MK2 is the plastic dosn't tend to go all "sticky" like on Bravo, Brava, Multipla etc. You do have to watch sharp rings on the chrome gearleverthough and an airbag safe seat cover is a good idea if you are doing deliveries etc like I was in mind. The side bolster fabric will pill eventually with that kind of use.
I find the Stilo the worse one for showing interior wear and tear especially the Abarth and it still has a bit of the sticky plastic worries too. Shame really.
craig04,
Jun 2, 1:17am
Interesting that you think the above reliability index is a good tool since it is based on the assessment of the largest mechanical warranty company in Europe but if anyone mentions the likes of Autosure it is instantly biased nonsense.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 1:27am
Thats because Autosure is biased nonsense. They just put the same high premium on anything that is not made in Japan. Its that cut and dry, they don't publish any ratings because the don't bother to rate anything.
Autosure offer no usable data to help anyone with any car.
The day they publish some usable data thats objective and made up of usable sample sizes is the day I will start using it.
Right now they just whisper rubbish in dealers ears about anything that isn't incredibly popular and therefore easy for them to insure. They work on the same principles as that Dog and Lemon nutter.
Case and point as I noted in the other thread, if you try and insure an S40 being the 6th most reliable car around (as actually measured by reliabilityindex) they will still lump you with the same high premium because its not made in Japan.
michael.benn,
Jun 2, 1:57am
I had heard somewhat bad things about them in the past, and as I had one on my watchlist when I was car browsing I decided to do some digging. I didn't like what I found, and promptly removed it from my watchlist ;)
The Accords on the other hand seem to have a great track record, been voted "most reliable car" multiple times by different places and seem to break down less than your average import. I must say (touch wood) it's been perfect so far. Fingers crossed :D
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 2:17am
There is sound reasoning behind everything I have suggested (unlike your advice of deliberately asking a mechanic who likely has no experience with these cars.) I have spelled out the reasons very clearly, if you choose to ignore the reasoning then its not my fault. BTW, case and point here your being a very loud contributor keen to rubbish yet you have never owned one.
Why not just stick to commenting on cars you actually know about, I thought you would have learned after the transmission incident, and the Rover incident. I don't mouth off about stuff I don't know about, see the Peugeot question from today if you want proof of that. My opinions are based on extensive first hand experience and very objective. (Plenty of negative fiat reviews for models that arn't up to snuff from me)
Just because my review of the Punto is favorable people with no experience at all choose to hack on it for no reason.
You have to remember that people are spending real money here and just hating on things without actually knowing about them causes undue confusion for the OP and wastes my time by having to rebut silly wives tales and untruths based on your Zero experience.
craig04,
Jun 2, 2:22am
Kaz advises people to check with their mechanics, not his. Anyway, they are just cars aren't they! Powered by internal combustion engines and not nuclear reactors and flux capacitors! Anyway, gotta go stock up on chocolate chip cookies and watch the biggest loser.
thejazzpianoma,
Jun 2, 2:27am
Thats the point in a nutshell, they are just cars, nothing scary at all under the bonnet and anyone who can service a corrolla can service a Punto. BUT it dosn't stop the nations brainwashed and overly vocal from scaring people into believing there is some kind of cash eating boogie man under the hood.
Enjoy your T.V, BTW still jealous of how much weight you have lost. Still doing O.K here but much slower progress than you. Top work that man!
tgray,
May 2, 10:44am
LOL.This Fiat guy has way too much time on his hands.and so defensive! You really shouldn't take yourself so seriously.wer'e not.
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