When buying a used car.

you guys are awesome

My Father's '96 Corolla wagon is the cheapest to run vehicle I have ever seen, it's now approaching 430,000km and the only issue it's had is a cracked radiator.
It does 7L/100km, carries over 90kg of tools over 300km per day, takes two kids, the dog and my mother.

Did I mention it doesn't break! As an A-B vehicle, what more is needed.
I'm not against the Punto, they are good value, but I don't think in the long run it'll be cheaper to run than a basic Corolla. (I'll mention this, I hate Corollas, with a passion, boring and beige) I'll buy it when he's done with it just for a reliable hack to put bike parts in.
I think the $3300 Corolla takes the cake for value really.

if you want a reliable car for 6 grand.buy yourself a Mazda MX5 for $4500 and fit a new top to it and get the cambelt/waterpump changed.
super reliable cars and cheap to run and fix.
and they will run rings around a punto or corolla and put a smile on your face too.

Threads nearly a year old, I think OP may have bought a car by now(o:

bahahaha, i just noticed. #52-53, june then april again.

.is it recommended to choose by the lowest mileage, or of the most recent year age!

If it might depend upon the details, then for example,.if wanting a year 2000-something, used import Jap hatchback, for $6000-ish, should I seek the lowest mileage vehicle available for my money, or the most recent year, regardless of the mileage!

What opinions please! And why!

One word CONDITION

Look under the oil cap, should be a nice silver or brown, not black. Pull the dipstick and look at the oil level. Open the water cap and look at the colour. Are they presenting it well or take no pride and don't care! Test drive and listen for clunks and bangs, ask for reciepts, does it shift smooth, is there steering play, do the panels line up perfect indicating no accidents.

All in the condition of the vehicle, year and mileage can be exclusive of that

Unfortunately its human nature to want a simple answer to questions that don't have one. This is one of those questions.

We assume here that you are only considering reliability!

What many people think they want is reliability or low running costs when really what they are wanting is the lowest total cost of ownership.

To answer your question you would need to tell us what you are actually looking for in a car.

I.e safety, low total cost of ownership, reliability etc.

Yep.

A 200,000 km vehicle in excellent condition, can be better than a 100,000k vehicle in bad condition.

for me I would go for most recent over the lowest kms.

I would rather a 1998 car with 170k for $3500 than a 1994 car with 80k, despite both being of the same value.

Okay, thanks for the opinions.

As for what I want from a car, and what pattern of driving I use one for, I am
a low mileage (40,000 in the past five years, mostly weekends, not daily commuting) driver, and I just want reliability and economy (both in fuel consumption and in ongoing maintenance costs).

Yes I am buying to a budget, of $6000-ish, and browsing at what is on offer for my budget, I see a choice of newer high mileage vehicles, or older, lower mileage.

Any other opinions, please!

O.K in terms of other opinions I would suggest you drop the "Jap Import" only criteria, its just limiting you unnecessarily and most likely excluding you needlessly from the best value vehicles. Also, be aware of safety, the end of the 90's and early 2000 was a real transition safety wise for many manufacturers so you will see quite a variation.

Given you are not commuting is this car used on the open road mainly or is it still a town or town/country mix car!

In terms of what I would buy for that money if wanting low maintenance, depreciation and reliability it would most likely be a Fiat Punto 2001 or newer with the 1.2 twin cam engine. Extreme economy, plenty of get up and go for that type of car, great safety, cheap parts, nicely optioned and very reliable.

If its only going to be an open road cruiser I might suggest something else.

If buying a CVT one I would buy with 50'000km or less unless there is clear evidence the transmission has been serviced on time every time. If buying manual I would not worry about km's much at all just the condition the car was in. Year wouldn't matter so long as its 2001 or newer.

If looking at a different vehicle my approach would vary depending on the individual quirks of that vehicle.

If you want reliability, do not buy a Fiat and do not take your chances with a CVT.
I would just look for a Toyota or Nissan and then you will be able to sleep at night knowing you will make it to work in the morning.

What a load of uneducated over generalised wives tale rubbish!
How many MK2 Punto's have you owned! I have owned plenty and even used them for my small work fleet giving them a real hard time. They are exceptionally reliable and a LOT more car than the tired Japanese rubbish you get for the same price.

Not to mention if you are unfortunate enough to have a crash you stand a decent chance of coming away unharmed. Which is not always the case with Japanese cars in that price range.

This is typical trash tallk from car dealer types who use it to push their supply of used Japanese imports which are usually poor value and under featured by comparison to Fiat Punto's some other European brands.

The trouble is these people have said it so many times now many actually believe it themselves and its not helped by back slapping encouragement from rip off merchant mechanical warranty sales people and their greasy dealer mates.

*Sits back and waits for the flames*

I advise the original poster to simply call a few mechanics and ask their advice.
In my experience in the trade, I thought I had heard it all, but this is the first time I have ever heard someone recommend Fiat over Nissan and Toyota if someone is looking for reliability.

To hear things you generally need to be listening.

Great idea to call around though, best to call the Italian Auto Centre which is in your City. They stock a huge range of new and used parts for Fiat Punto's and also do servicing and repairs so they actually KNOW what they are talking about and can quote specifics and prices. Their prices on parts are excellent as is their advice and service.

Ask them what goes wrong, what to look for and what things cost to repair. The engines used in the Punto are as tried and proven and as bullet proof as you can get. Fiat were the first to use CVT transmissions in cars 30 years ago and their units are properly reliable so long as they are serviced as the manufacturer intended.

Take a 1200cc twin cam CVT Punto for a run and then jump in a 1500cc automatic Vitz or similar. You will immediately see the difference in efficiency as the 1200cc Punto easily out performs the 1500cc Toyota with less CC's while using less fuel. You will also see the big advantage the CVT has over the 1980's 4 speed auto technology in the Toyota. If you can load the car up with some mates and run it up the Bombay hills, the difference between the two cars is huge. If you leave the clever CVT in economy mode you can use all the pedal you need without it screaming its guts out unlike the Toyota.

People think because the likes of the Honda Jazz has an unreliable CVT that all CVT's are like that. Not the case at all, CVT technology varies and Fiat the Fiat unit is excellent, the key problem with the Honda unit for example is excessive friction and wear caused by dirty transmission fluid. thats what you get when you don't design your CVT to include a filter.

With the Punto's top notch mechanicals and galvanised body (meaning no rust) all you are left with is inexpensive minor things to go wrong, and even those issues are very few and far between.

A stripped down go cart with little to no safety features and technology fresh from the 1980's will always have a slight reliability advantage over any vehicle with a reasonable level of spec (even from the same brand). When you actually line up models of different brands with the same level of sophistication it becomes very apparent that the likes of Toyota while still fairly good for reliability are generally no better than other makes or models.

Toyota does not have a "magic wand" of reliability its just marketing hype and a clever sales pitch. The good news is it's not the 1970's anymore and the vast majority of modern vehicles are very reliable. There is absolutely no need to sacrifice important safety, comfort and efficiency features in the name of reliability. (and pay through the nose for the privilege)

If total cost of ownership is important (over time) its absolutely essential to look at the entire picture including purchase price, running costs, depreciation and servicing costs. When you actually do the math properly (as I have on many occasion) a good example of a MK2 Punto for around 5K is pretty much impossible to beat.

Remember too, no two cars are created equal, do proper research on each individual model you are considering. The country of origin means nothing, all countries and manufacturers have had good and bad models. Interestingly Toyota's "Cavalier" is the joke of the motoring industry and is just a re-badged U.S car. and not a good one at that. Without doing your due diligence its easy to fall into a trap like that as people do every day.

BTW, I am not anti-Toyota I have owned and enjoyed my share of them. But in your price range at this particular point in time they are generally grossly over priced and are no where near the vehicle others are.

Almost bought a Cavalier before I got my Accord. Glad I didn't.

Glad you didn't too!

That's why its so important not to make silly generalizations like "buy a Toyota". Its a perfectly reasonable assumption for someone not in the know to see a Cavalier with a Toyota badge on it and buy one because they were told "buy a Toyota".

Unfortunately its human nature to try and reduce the complex into one line generalizations. Its one of our coping mechanisms to stop us being overwhelmed with information. Sadly though its not always a useful instinct when dealing with things automotive. Luckily though, there are better strategy's that can be used.

Top work on doing your research michael.benn. You are case in point how it pays off.

I disagree, you should always talk to people who actually KNOW the vehicle in question. Especially as in this case they also supply the parts and can give prices and examples.

Also, given that the OP is looking for "a jap import" its possible "their mechanic" is one of those incompetent closed minded boof heads who spouts silly generalizations and has never worked on a Fiat in his/her life. After all, people pick up these silly generalizations from somewhere.

*Takes off a few layers and opens a cold one in preparation for some more nice warming flames*

Okay thanks, I have read and taken on board all of that.

I am not necessarily fixed on a 'used Jap import', and am open to 'NZ new' or a Fiat or VW.
I want a hatchback. I don't care if manual or auto. My garage at home is not generously sized. The present 1991 Corona is a snug fit.

I don't have a particular mechanic I go to, whom I know to ask for advice, as suggested above. I change engine oil and filter myself, and for any more comprehensive work, I choose one convenient at the time.

What I notice however from browsing advertisements is that typically, for my budget, yes I could afford a small 2000something Fiat Punto or VW Golf, but the mileage will be over 100,000km. But for that same money, I could buy a small Mazda or Nissan, a just-arrived import, with 40,000-50,000km.

That is what makes it tough choice for me. So I appreciate the advice.

I am not generalizing at all. However the OP sounds a lot like yet another non-vehicle afficianado thats been fed some cheesy generalizations in the past.

Our automotive industry is well poisoned by this countries obsession for importing insane amounts of used Japanese imports and all the untruths told to flick them off to the unsuspecting for exorbitant prices.

The thing is Fiat make fantastic little cars and have done for decades. Before the scourge of used imports from Japan and a hopeless NZ agency they were very popular here. Also, ask any mechanic in a country not poisoned by the masses of used Jap imports what Fiat Punto's are like and you will usually get a favorable response.

Having actually owned, serviced and done many many miles in quite a number of them myself I know they are a decent car.

The thing is there is no money in importing/selling Fiat Punto's so there are plenty out there who will rubbish them. Italian Auto's are straight up and prepared to stand by what they recommend (as am I) and they actually know what they are talking about given they deal with Punto's every day.

Quite a number have bought Punto's on my advice from here and we are yet to see any return unhappy with their reliability.

Hi again,
I would suggest comparing what you are actually getting for your money in terms of car. The Punto is going to give you economy of about 5l/100km on the open road and generally no worse than 6.5l/100km around town, even in CVT form.

Its going to have 4 or more airbags 4 1/2 star NCAP ratings, pre-tensioners, ABS and lots of nice little bits like its clever transmission with tiptronic functions, factory sub-woofer, galvanised body etc.

Compare that to what you are getting in the Mazda's etc and it may help.

Since you don't mind manual you may as well get a Manual one for even more bomb proof reliability.

In terms of what you get km's wise. I think it might just be the snapshot of whats available at the moment thats confusing. I have seen plenty of low km Punto's for 6K in the past and its pretty rare to find a Japanese import that is actually better value.

Also, those Fire series engines in the Fiats do horrendous km's without anything but standard maintenance. They will typically not use any oil between changes with even 250'000 km on the clock, and they have long oil change intervals.

With regard to the VW, I am a big VW fan but for your price range the Fiat is likely going to be the more reliable and have slightly lower running costs. If you were spending twice as much I would be suggesting the VW every time.