100km as a limit for profitability.What do you base that on foxdonut! There are lots of cars around that are kept in service for 300k and more, late model.If the service interval is 80km you are up to 3 changes at just 240km.At 240k the maintained chain will still be spinning.The Mb is a good place for discussion.Obviously we will not all agree at all times but we ought to be able to listen to one another don't you agree!
vtecintegra,
Jun 1, 7:31am
Not in all cases
realtrader1,
Jun 1, 7:33am
No, but I am talking well maintained and a reputable brand.
vtecintegra,
Jun 1, 7:34am
Nissan went through a fairly bad period with their first generation of newer four cylinders and I'd consider them a reputable brand.
r15,
Jun 1, 7:35am
easy- the astra is an astra. is there anything good about them!
as for the belt / chain issue:
if i had only bought non interference engines over the years i dont think i would have had any fun from my vehicles- with high compression comes small clearances. and power.
belts are cheap, quiet, reliable.i personally have never had one break or know anyone personally who has had one break. is it just that whenever one does break the person tells everyone about it! - - i know it happens, but not often enough to make it a selling point or not.
more likely to buy a car and something else goes wroing- not the cambelt.
cheap cars- if it breaks it breaks, worst case you buy some parts off another 'cheap car' the same and then carry on
thunderbolt,
Jun 1, 7:38am
The viva (daewoo) belts etc are made of HSN and are well capable of exceeding 60,000km. The tensioners are the limiting factors.
thunderbolt,
Jun 1, 7:41am
I guess you left the trade back then or keep buying the cheapest no name belts money can buy. The early civics etc had a belt made of neoprene, these were improved with High temperature neoprene. The next development was HSN (Highly Saturated Nitrile) which has been through 10 or more upgrages in the hands of the larger global manufacturers.
realtrader1,
Jun 1, 7:44am
Yes, fair comment.There will always be exceptions to the rule.Let's face it, you could by aa elcheapo belt, throw that on or have it fitted by someone who doesn't know what they are doing.not replace idlers that are worn etc. and what will happen!The cheap belt shreds itself or the bearing explodes but typically it's the belt that's blamed, right!Not always the person who did a sub-standard job.
strobo,
Jun 1, 7:47am
Real trader #41 is dead right .it's all after sales /parts &money go round .cars should last a life time in this day & age , but nano they don'twith a life expectancy less than 100,ooo kms so the push is for another clap out oneneeding more parts or a brand spanky new one. Gosh those cam belts ! when the rubber band winds down , Check outthe weight of those damtensioner bearings and idlers! They weigh 1/2a ton notto mention the counter balance shafts in some& all too common failure of belts esp. with interference designedengines!the costs of repairsdig at # 42 sort of ,of interest if a dismantler could weigh the 3 most common drive sets1/ chain, the2sprockets+ tensioner2/all the cambelt drivensprockets,idler & tensioner bearings incl bolts ( not the water pump or oil pump just the sprockets)3/ all the gears in a gear drive / note the carbon fibre against alloy tho,
realtrader1,
Jun 1, 8:21am
One of the problems associated with a cambelt replacement every 80 - 100k is that other bits like water pumps, which will do more than 80 - 100k, get replaced as well, after all, the garage has to protect itself.As well, even though 100k may be the recommended change interval, fear of failure will find many people replacing at 80k.It is a money go round, intended or not.Personally, to me it seems to be intentional but we all bought into the BDA thing way back in the 70's for the advanced design, quiet, fashionable trendy idea and increasingly many are waking up to the fact that gears were pretty resilient and chains are not so bad.
foxdonut,
Jun 1, 9:17am
"The garage" didn't build your car and their parts suppliers buy their bits from China. Haven't any of you ever lived outside of new zealand! After its first major service at 50k a manufacturer has made its money on a car, anything else is just good will.
I don't want to alarm anyone, but contrary to popular opinion, a "new car" isn't something that's done less than 100000 kilometers.
snoopy221,
Jun 1, 9:27am
Big thing really is the throttle response on late model multi valve engines WILL wear the valve train drive. Belts are cheaper to replace than chains and gears. Sure we had a lot of *horror stories* with broken belts- MAINLY due to japanese imports and the effects of japanese enviromental smog on rubber components-AND The urban cylce of motoring in japan- Which incedentaly also gave us the horro stories of oil feeds blocking up. Tis like tyres-tis MAINTAINENCE at the end of the day.
mantagsi,
Jun 1, 10:29am
It often amazes me when people declare that cars should last 'forever' without maintenance. for a variety of obvious reasons it would be madness / impossible to make such a car, so all I can say is suck it up and learn to swap your own parts. Gone are the days when the home handyman was expected to be capable of fully rebuilding his old English car engine! Doing your own repairs is fun and educational too. "But mantagsi, I don't have the time do learn or do the job!" Well, if you are that busy you must be working hard, and if you are working hard you can afford a brand new car every couple of years :D
mantagsi,
Jun 1, 10:29am
It often amazes me when people declare that cars should last 'forever' without maintenance. for a variety of obvious reasons it would be madness / impossible to make such a car, so all I can say is suck it up and learn to swap your own parts. Gone are the days when the home handyman was expected to be capable of fully rebuilding his old English car engine! Its fun and educational too
kazbanz,
Jun 1, 9:10pm
Holey cow --then we had best to contact the manufacturer right away and the major warranty companies to let them know they are wrong.
elect70,
Jun 2, 2:19am
Tell BMW thatAFAIKthey all use chain drive& they arent skint onthe engineeringof their engines . Belts are cheaperthan chains running in oil bathconstanlymy old 635 CSI still had origonal chain& tensionerat 380k& when did the head took itthe engine shop said it wasgood asnewdidnt need replacing . Try that with a belt
realtrader1,
Jun 2, 3:57am
Brilliant!Obviously well maintained and proves a very good point!
vtecintegra,
Jun 2, 4:08am
BMW made models with belts.
These days almost everything from every manufacturer has a chain (with the exception of a few old designs still being used)
foxdonut,
Jun 2, 5:27am
lol. How many gallons of premium oil did that engine need! The m50 2 litre could happily put away seven litres at a time and the friendly reminder on the dash every few thousand kays to replace it was one of the memories of the three's that I have. That and needing premium fuel and going nowhere on a tank of gas regardless how it was driven. Oh, an the 1600kg (dry) curbweight, shitty manual transmission that needed full revs to get the things moving.
Good cars BMW's. Having tried three when I was younger I'm glad I'll know never to make that mistake again when I get older.
foxdonut,
Jun 2, 5:28am
About as efficient as invading Russia in the winter.
michelle322,
Jun 2, 6:12am
get a Pulsar or Sunny,Sentra 1300-1500cc,cheap ,reliable if looked after.
kazbanz,
Jun 2, 6:28am
Foxy you do know that more modern cars get more fuel efficient don't you!
elect70,
Jun 2, 11:57pm
635 is 3.5 L6 cylnot a3 seriesapart from head issues( onceskimmedOk )bloody good strongmotor& did10L /100kmGot better life out of it than any of 3falcs & 2 commiesi have hadboth 6 cyl s
foxdonut,
Jun 3, 2:17am
Wow, don't set the bar too high.
deutch,
Jul 4, 9:46pm
Foxdonut.
Do make stuff up as you go?
Sure looks like it.
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