I have a 2010 Golf Variant with 112k on the clock. Check engine light is on and the mechanic says the timing chain is likely stretched, after spending the afternoon with a diagnostic computer. I'm about to get a quote for replacement of the chain, crank and camshafts and the tensioner. I'm expecting a quote in the $2,500-$4,000 range.
A look at trademe suggests this car is selling for from $6k to $10k from a dealer, suggesting that if we get ours fixed up we might get $4k-7k for it.
But ours is pretty dinged up due to some careless driving, so unlikely to fetch that.
Do I repair it or scrap it?
intrade,
Jul 26, 7:39pm
what are the codes. What engine oil was used correct vw speced oils?
what i know happens usally is the stupid design of a tensioner fails first . Sell it with disclosed fault . The tensioner fail is due to patents pending on good tensioner designs. ford have some abortion transmission designes due to petents and fiat use the setup the mk1 golf once used with a pushrod all the way thru the transmission all sorts of abortions all to not infringe upon other car makers patents so they dont have to pay patent roialtys.
pshack,
Jul 26, 7:47pm
P00016 - which is the camshaft/crankshaft correlation. We've had it for four years and have always put the good oil in it, more frequently than required- always looked after at Powerhaus the Euro specialist in Wellington. But the previous Japanese owners, who knows.
supernova2,
Jul 26, 8:56pm
So did they check that the sensors are functioning correctly or just make the assumption that it's thrown the code so it must need a new chain etc?
pshack,
Jul 26, 9:02pm
They've done some investigation when it turned up previously: checked resistance on a couple of the accessible sensors I believe, but I'll ask again tomorrow about how far they've gone down that route. Good thought, thanks.
intrade,
Jul 26, 9:10pm
resistens is not how you test you use a atis ascope from aecs.net or a picoscope. or even a snapon scope etc to see if zou have deviation. Also a chain strech should make some sort of rattle noises at times
why worry = if the car is running fine just keep driving , the putor has picked up a slight glitch in it's timing parameters and lit the engine light up , if there is no stupid noises or loss of performance = keep using it .
rovercitroen,
Jul 26, 9:48pm
Seems low kms to be having such major engine problems.
saxman99,
Jul 26, 9:53pm
Fairly often the damn CEL is on for very little reason. If it's still driving ok then ignore or remove the check engine light bulb until it blows up, then scrap it. Warning: it might run flawlessly for years with the light on.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 26, 10:40pm
Why are you replacing the crank and camshafts? Do you actually mean crank and cam sprockets?
Let us know what the prices are. These are cheaper and easier to do that doing a timing belt on some cars.
The kit can be had online for less than $200 but I would spend a little bit more on a really good quality one. An experienced VW tech would do the job in about 3 hours so the labour bill should not be that high.
It should be well worth while getting it done, I wouldn't keep running it like that for too long as due to the sophistication of the engine you could create some properly expensive problems for yourself down the track.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 26, 10:41pm
Also. I am guessing this is a twin charger?
msigg,
Jul 27, 7:17am
Yes, sorry this is the problem with these things, if the body is stuffed as you say then it is scrap, is it still driveable as suggested. Just use it till it dies and buy another more reliable brand. That's my suggestion, or as intrade, sell as is with the fault, or trade, you will get $500.
pshack,
Jul 27, 7:49am
Thanks for the further thoughts folks. The car barely started yesterday and was shuddering away idling at only about 700rpm, so I had it towed to the mechanic and they've told me it's not driveable.
intrade: thanks for that link, without having seen the inside of the engine myself that does look like similar symptoms to what I have. Same code, certainly.
Jazz: yes that is what I mean, thanks. I think the issue is that the source of the timing problem could be any of the sprockets, the chain, or the tensioner. And sounds like they're inclined to replace the whole lot in one go, to avoid a further problem down the track.
Not sure about twincharger. It's the 1.4TSI 90kw engine, one of the earlier ones. The date stamp indicates it was manufactured December 2009, car first registered 2010. It's also the model with the dreaded 7 speed dry clutch. Our one does occasionally shudder on the shift from first to second, and has done the whole time we've owned it. It makes me worry that we spend a bunch of cash on the car and might only be a few months or years away from a second, similarly expensive problem .
tamarillo,
Jul 27, 7:51am
Bit do you want to sell? If not, look into what jazz is saying and frankly, get second opinion. Then look at whether you simply just keep driving it, or maybe get tensioner done and see where that takes you. Before sensors many an engine rattled away happily for years before expiring.
supernova2,
Jul 27, 9:39am
I'm not a VW expert but I doubt that the supposed stretch in a chain would stop a car starting. If it is the cause that chain must have stretched one hell of a lot. Are you sure that your selected mechanic actually knows what they are doing?
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 27, 9:46am
the 90KW version is turbo only no supercharger as well, I was asking partly because I was curious as to what transmission you had. I agree the transmission is a risk that should be factored in. The Golf is a great car but you have picked the worst engine/transmission/year combination possible, unfortunately.
The timing issue should be able to be confirmed exactly with a decent scanner as VW kindly put a timing stretch calculator on their system.
The Kit I mentioned comes with both sprockets, guides, tensioner etc. That is the normal way to do them. I will be intrigued to hear what they quote for the job price wise.
Is it going to a VW specialist or general mechanic?
kazbanz,
Jul 27, 10:10am
Pshack-with only 112km on the clock Im really struggling with you needing to replace the camchain . What I'm wondering is if one or both of the crank/camshaft sensors are faulty.
serf407,
Jul 27, 10:24am
It is likely only with hindsight that you might realise whether you have made the correct decision to repair or not or replace.
I saw a vehicle blowing a lot of smoke; driving into a supermarket carpark the other day, I went over to see what it was - it was a ssangyong ute years younger than the VW mentioned in this thread.
If you get a cheap replacement vehicle you might end up with a cga fight etc from a dealer. Does the VW Golf mechanic give any warranty with his work? If there was storage space (keep the golf stored) and I could afford it. I would get another used vehicle appropriate to budget and when proven reliable, shift the golf. If the replacement vehicle is a lemon and you have purchased off an intransigent dealer, (hopefully you would not need attempt to fix the golf while the lemon issue is resolved?) Type your locality into the search box if you wish to read story time. https://www.justice.govt.nz/tribunals/motor-vehicle-dealer-disputes/decisions/
mojo49,
Jul 27, 10:49am
Good point. I have had chain driven engines up to 300Km still fine. Stretched at 115km seems unlikely. Sensors sound more likely.
yz490,
Jul 27, 10:59am
If the chain tensioner claps out plus the chain being stretched/worn can it jump a tooth [or more teeth] hence up there where you say it only 'just' started and rand terrible with lower than normal idle [valve timing &/or plus ignition timing, if driven by the cam]. Flailing chain wouldn't do the sprockets any good either but would make a hell of a clatter surely! . Just my random thoughts.
elect70,
Jul 27, 2:44pm
Most likely crank & or cam sensors these are common to go on many EFI cars at that Kms , chain would have to be really badly stretched to cause it to jump a tooth & run rough . Probaly can buy newsensors on line at half the price of VW part . . Only if that doesnt cure it see about the tensioner &chain
pshack,
Jul 27, 5:26pm
Thanks for the further comments.
I now have a quote for up to $1900 to replace the chain, tensioner, and various associated parts.
I asked about the sensors. They are confident this is not the problem. I didn’t follow the whole explanation but the mechanic said that the connections that they normally hook up diagnostic tools to were out of position which is a strong indication of improper movement in the timing system.
He said they have dealt with a few similar ones and it sounded like mine was presenting a pretty typical case.
I asked after their experience of the gearbox in my model. Deep breath, Jazz, but he said that they weren’t great in his view and that VW unfortunately experimented on its customers and they had seen plenty of failures of VW 7 speeds. The 6 speeds much more reliable. He didn’t seem to be discriminating between the older 7 speeds and the new ones when I asked about that.
Going to discuss with my wife at the weekend which way we go. It’s a lower quote for the repair than I had feared but the long term prognosis for the car doesn’t seem great.
franc123,
Jul 27, 7:23pm
You've answered your own question, get shot of it while its still running for whatever you can get, transmission problems are no doubt around the corner. You may find someone motivated enough who is willing to do a DIY fix on it.
thejazzpianoma,
Jul 27, 8:30pm
I totally agree with him regarding the transmission. That's why I don't recommend pre 2011 cars with the 7 speed auto. (They improved from 2011 onwards, not bombproof like the 6 speed but much better)
Every manufacturer has lemon models.
I also agree with the mechanic in that statistically it's not that uncommon for an early 1.4 to stretch a chain. Especially if you are not the first owner and someone before you has not run the best oil or delayed changes, but even so they can go early.
If replacing with another Golf, feel free to hit me up for advice on which model/year/trans to get for better reliability.
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