I know this is an old post but I suspect I have fallen victim to this problem. I have/had a 2009 Hyundai H1/Iload. I bought it as a "used Vehicle", 9 months ago from a Hyundai dealer in Wellington.3 months after owning it the fuel filter light came on, i took it to the Hyundai dealer in Palmy who checked it out and told me the sensor was faulty.Last week i had the 75000km service done and a new intercooler fitted as had discovered a small crack in the existing one. 2 days later the van blew up, im told injectors clogged up, turbo blown the works, $20,000 to fix it.Now have Hyundai and dealers running around trying to avoid the problem. what should I do!
kingfisher21,
Jul 28, 9:31am
Sounds more like some idiot left something in the intake while replacing the intercooler.
nika8,
Jul 28, 11:10am
Yes this is what I considered to start with too, but how can I prove it!They are putting it on me saying I have to pay
intrade,
Jul 28, 12:56pm
it applyes to any diesel the new ulsd fuel will destroy any injection system of all diesel its only a matter of time if you dont use a additive to prevent it. water is one aspect but insufficient lubrication is another as loads of people have found out the hard way on this forum. I run chemtech on all my diesel and recommend it to mi customers , if they dont then its more work for me sooner or later and you need a big big wallet to fix the damage afterwards.
thewomble1,
Jul 28, 3:47pm
Filling your car with any fuel (petrol or diesel) just after the service stations tanks have been filled because the filling stirs up the water etc.Hard to imagine enough water being sucked up to cause this damage. Also there would be a fair amount of fuel in the underground tank so as to 'cushion' the incoming fuel.It would only take a few minutes for any water to settle again. I know for a fact all the old Shell service stations now Zcheck for water at least once a week using special paste and if any signs of water action was taken to remove it.
mm12345,
Oct 21, 3:47am
Anybody else see this the other day! Really not enough information, but some serious warning for anybody considering buying any common-rail diesel vehicle. Water, presumed to be from contaminated fuel, munted the 80+ year old owner's Hyundai almost new i35. Hyundai refused warranty, blaming fuel cos. Repair cost was $20,000.We didn't get to see how this was comprised, but presumably the entire fuel delivery system from tank through to injectors was trashed.Still a very high cost - almost unbelievable. Hyundai tested fuel at 390ppm H2O, vs spec/limit of 200ppm - almost double.BTW, that 200ppm represents about 2 teaspoons of water per 50 litres of fuel.50 litres of air going in to a tank as it's emptied on a humid Auckland summer day contains about 1/3 of a teaspoon of water, and about 1/2 of that will condense if the temperature drops from about 28 to 15 degrees. The filter warning light didn't actuate.Hyundai "damage control manager" (or whoever he was) seemed to want to blame the owner for ignoring the warning, but if the light had come on, then this would have generated a fault code, none was retrieved, so the old guy must be believed. Fuel companies have apparently paid out many claims, but rumours are that they gag the claimant with a confidentiality agreement before paying. I take from the conclusion that the old guy was going to pay 1/2 costs, and Hyundai were going to "assist" with claim against fuel companies. Jeesh - I fill my (mechanically injected) diesel wherever is handy at the time.It crapped out back in about 2001 due to some clever dick at NZ Refining buying some "bargain price" winterising additive, but that clogged the filter almost immediately and was easily fixed (Mobil paid me for a new filter).Trying to find out where water came from, given that it's going to be very hard to prove that it wasn't condensation, and that it might be some time between getting the crap tank of fuel and corrosion getting sucked through the fuel system, would be a nightmare.Perhaps modern diesel owners need to fill up always at the same station, and keep receipts. Better still - do not buy these time bombs.
bevharris1938,
Oct 21, 3:57am
Yes i seen it , they gave him a new car and made him pay half the bill.
slarty45,
Oct 21, 4:09am
Hard case that Hyundai admitted the warning light didn't work. Not much point having it.
My boat has a water separating filter. If water visible in sight glass, turn tap & drain.
In todays high tech world a modern version could be automated.
mm12345,
Oct 21, 4:21am
Oh, and forgot to add, the son of the old fellow, talked his dad into trading in his small car and getting a large "safer" 4WD. I had some concerns about my father's driving when he was about the same age.I never thought that the answer was to get a bigger car - so he was less danger to himself, but more danger to everybody else on the roads.
franc123,
Oct 21, 4:48am
There was only two meaningful conclusions you could draw from that case:
1/The water sedimenter light clearly did not function as intended, the amount of water that could have caused the damage they depicted must have been enough to have triggered it if it was working correctly, if it is not then there are serious issues with the calibration of the float sensor. 2/Someone isn't telling the truth about how the water got into the fuel system in the first place, be it the fuel station concerned, the owner (was the filler cap left off for a period for instance and the vehicle left out in heavy rain or washed), or Hyundai, did the water enter before the guy even bought it, did it somehow get in between the factory and when the tank was completely filled at the dealership prior to him taking delivery!
The bottom line really is that its difficult for an owner/operator to know how much water contamination is present if the warning system doesn't work, if Hyundai don't specify that physically emtying the sedimenter is an owner task like checking tyre pressures and oil level etc, between services and it was not checked at its scheduled service then they should have taken responsibility for the whole thing IMO.
andydlm,
Oct 21, 5:26am
As an owner of a brand new diesel vehicle surely he could claim insurance. And then the insurance company could have a go at the fuel people if they want to.
zooki007,
Oct 21, 10:59am
I have worked on a number of CR diesels that have been brought into us due to them failing.The majority of them have been due to water contamination, which was very visible in fuel samples. Some however, have shown zero signs of water or other contaminants in the fuel yet when specialists have inspected the parts they said they failed due to contaminated fuel. The manufacturers have 99% of the time refused warranty due to this contamination. Another factor is in a majority of the failed vehicles, they never had any warning system activated to warn the driver of a problem. There is definitely more to this issue than is being acknowledged by the fuel companies and vehicle manufacturers.
rpee,
Oct 21, 6:25pm
Look up ' Fuel doctor' VMS that will sort out water in any fuel !
serf407,
Oct 21, 6:36pm
If the CR is out of warranty, you would have to consider getting a quote to put a mechanical diesel or carby/ injected petrol engine conversion in the vehicle.
1. The car was practically 'new' at the time. 2. The vehicle failed to trigger it's own warning light which would have prevented the collossal damage occurring. 3. This was through no fault of the owner. 4. He has to pay out $10,000 Question - Does this seem fair!
fordcrzy,
Oct 21, 7:46pm
most gas stations have tank monitoring systems that can pick up water in tanks.(like 5mm in the bottom of a 50,000 liter tank!) and those stations that dont are required to dip the tanks for water using water finding paste.the pick ups for the pumps usually sit 150mm-200mm up off the bottom of the tank to stop sediment and water from being sucked up into the delivery lines. i doubt that the water came from a gas station.if it had there would be more cases of this and records showing the water in tanks had been pumped out etc . a lot of the new cars like mercs and the VAG group have water sensors in the cars tanks that shut the car down when water is detected.
studio1,
Oct 21, 8:12pm
Maybe someone can explain here why this issue is affecting common rail vehicles more (or opposed to) mechanical injected ones. I understand that CR engines run very high pressure in the rail, I also know they won't run on used vege oil [friend tried it on his new van and it wouldn't even idle properly] so it seems they are quite fussy about the fuel.
The photos they showed on Fair Go were difficult to interpret - one of them seemed to be a round bowl, perhaps the top of the fuel filter housing! It was rusted and pitted badly - which suggested there had been a lot of water in the system, and sitting there for some time.
This is the problem with TV - they don't give you all the facts or explain things in sufficient detail.
mm12345,
Oct 21, 8:24pm
I agree that's possible - that it wasn't contaminated diesel.Presuming that the owner wasn't silly enough to wash it with the fuel filler cap off, the water had to come from somewhere.I worked out how much could end up from the tank from condensation, assuming that it was driven in 100% relative humidity from full tank down to 10 litres left, then parked overnight where air temp dropped 10 deg.It would take many repeat cycles of this before there should have been a problem, and anyway that clean water should have always dropped out, and tripped the warning light.In my opinion, it's possible but unlikely condensation was the initial cause. Biggest concerns IMO is that the fuel filter water warning didn't go off, and also what the hell was rusting so badly.Water and diesel don't mix - or at least shouldn't mix, assuming clean water.Something seems to have made them mix, emulsifying the water for long enough for it to go through the system and not set off the warning light.Some detergent in the water, some fuel additive with detergent properties perhaps, or perhaps if the fuel's being delivered from the tank via an in-tank pump, that pump's generating enough shear so that if it picks up some water, it can emulsify the water finely enough, so that the emulsion is stable for long enough to cause the problem. If this is either a problem with fuel, or a Hyundai problem with design, at $20k per car per problem, it needs to be identified.
mrcat1,
Oct 21, 8:24pm
I think you will find that some fuel was put in it not from a service station, a lot of farmers are having problems with their new CR utes and tractors as their on farm tanks have never had any maintanance like tank drains or filter changes or possibly no filters fitted. My machine has 3 big fuel filters, one being a water trap/ filter thats about 4 times bigger than a ute one, and they have tank drains to get water out of the fuel tank. If you have concerns about diesel fuel that is purchased from anywhere you can get it tested quite cheaply.
clark20,
Oct 21, 8:51pm
Same thing happened at work for a Santa Fe, $10,000 damage, never ever fill up when the tankers fulling up the stations tanks, it mixes it all up (water etc) and goes to your tank. Gas company paid for fix.
mm12345,
Oct 21, 8:57pm
The pressures are much, much higher, (30,000 psi )so everything is much more critical. The injector pumps are very expensive, the injectors are often not serviceable. Comparison - a mechanical pump overhaul, and full service on injectors for a 4 cylinder diesel may cost about $1,000 plus labour. A nasty cost, but won't cripple most owners. A common rail pump may cost a few thousand to service, injectors could be $1200 each, plus labour.Over the lifetime of the vehicle, this is probably going to have to be done, perhaps 150,000km interval if you're lucky, perhaps $8-10,000 "routine" service cost. Once all these trendy little turbo diesel peugeots etc start feeding through to the second hand market, many are going to be sitting on a "service requirement" which is going to be higher cost than the vehicle is worth.There will be blood.The motoring press should be flayed when they write their drooling reviews of these little cars, for not pointing out this reality.But the motoring press, are almost entirely shills for the motor companies, so most would never risk biting the hand that feeds.
zooki007,
Oct 21, 9:00pm
Yes farm supply fuel is a big problem here. But townies cars that only ever go to a servo are having the same issues. The issues aren't just with water. There are lots that are failing due to "contaminated fuel" whether it be petrol or some other "additive" (injector clean type stuff) that has been added to the fuel system. There has been talk some manufacturers are now recommending adding 2 stroke oil to the fuel, especially with CR diesels, due to poor fuel quality.
bevharris1938,
Oct 21, 9:01pm
How do you know this !
franc123,
Oct 21, 9:12pm
Dead right, what was that about fuel savings again lol!The new car distributors here don't see this as a problem, especially once its out of warranty, selling non serviceable injectors at a grand a piece is a nice littleearner for them, and they don't care about old high km cars and their owners anyway, in their opinion they should be off the road at 10 years/150k or so.The people that write such glowing reviews about such vehicles also have the same attitude.
fordcrzy,
Oct 21, 10:54pm
i agree. the parts situation is STUUUUUUPIDfor most new cars.like $2500 for a mondeo clutch!WOW. thats stupid.oh and you have to replace the flywheel too because its dual mass.what the hell was wrong with good old steel flywheels! car companies are getting way to fancy with stuff.poor design for the basics is a common problem.sure they spend millions getting 0.000001 better fuel economy but forget about how to remove an oil filter easily.
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